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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 18, 2016 13:43:32 GMT -5
So in essence, if the realgm talk has any meat to it, we would get Griffin for Crowder and Rozier. On the surface that sounds great, but a few thoughts. 1. Griffin is a free agent in 2 years 2. Crowder is not in Griffin's class, but he is a good player on a GREAT contract. 3. We still wouldn't have a center. 4. That leaves us with only one SF on the team, Brown. I know he had some impressive moments in Summer League, but starting him and having no real backup is dicey at best. Agree - but this article is now a week old. "WE" (those of us on here) have already included Pierce in the deal to come to us. We'd then have to keep Nader, or get, like, a Morrow to help Brown. Pierce for a year, with Brown? Yep, I like it!!
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Post by cgreensmashmachine on Jul 18, 2016 21:40:07 GMT -5
Ok. So I've got some legit, hot-stove stuff regarding the state of the Celtics Trade Expedition going on in Cali. Pretty much all of it is what most of you already suspect, but here it is in black and white:
Griffin's health is not an issue, it's his willingness to commit to Boston long-term. DA, Stevens, IT are all trying to sell Boston as a long-term competitive team. And despite the rumors, Blake is seriously considering it. Although like what A. Sherrod Blakely reported, it's unlikely that Griffin will wind up here. He's very comfortable where he is.
(Note the good news is that the framework is in place, but DA won't pull the trigger without a full commitment, first)
The rumors surrounding Jahlil are NOT a smoke screen. IF Blake rejects us (which he probably will), the C's have maintained their interest in Jahlil as a last resort. They're not crazy about Okafor because, part of the pitch to Horford was, a competive team right now, so they're trying not to surround Al with too many young players.
Sources have confirmed that Okafor is Plan B. And as A. Sherrod reported earlier today, the Plan A's (Griffin, Westbrook, Cousins, Love) are all very unlikely..at least during this summer.
Anything else besides this is purely speculation, like-- When will things begin to happen? And what pieces would be involved?
I think that a decision from Blake will happen sometime this week, and immediately afterwards, we'll rapidly begin to see the other little dominos start to fall (like Shooter??? James Young and Tyler Zeller status? Yabu's status?)
Things are about to start getting fun. The Griffin and Okafor rumors are real!
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Post by Employee8 on Jul 18, 2016 21:53:56 GMT -5
Ok. So I've got some legit, hot-stove stuff regarding the state of the Celtics Trade Expedition going on in Cali. Pretty much all of it is what most of you already suspect, but here it is in black and white: Griffin's health is not an issue, it's his willingness to commit to Boston long-term. DA, Stevens, IT are all trying to sell Boston as a long-term competitive team. And despite the rumors, Blake is seriously considering it. Although like what A. Sherrod Blakely reported, it's unlikely that Griffin will wind up here. He's very comfortable where he is. (Note the good news is that the framework is in place, but DA won't pull the trigger without a full commitment, first) The rumors surrounding Jahlil are NOT a smoke screen. IF Blake rejects us (which he probably will), the C's have maintained their interest in Jahlil as a last resort. They're not crazy about Okafor because, part of the pitch to Horford was, a competive team right now, so they're trying not to surround Al with too many young players. Sources have confirmed that Okafor is Plan B. And as A. Sherrod reported earlier today, the Plan A's (Griffin, Westbrook, Cousins, Love) are all very unlikely..at least during this summer. Anything else besides this is purely speculation, like-- When will things begin to happen? And what pieces would be involved? I think that a decision from Blake will happen sometime this week, and immediately afterwards, we'll rapidly begin to see the other little dominos start to fall (like Shooter??? James Young and Tyler Zeller status? Yabu's status?) Things are about to start getting fun. The Griffin and Okafor rumors are real! Okafor has his own injury that needs review as well ... not as serious as Griffin for sure but another with medical history needing review or even physical; Okafor is still rehabbing from surgery in February to repair a torn meniscus, but he hopes to be cleared for five-on-five play soon.
www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/07/eastern-notes-okafor-simmons-millsap-young.html
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Post by cgreensmashmachine on Jul 19, 2016 8:54:54 GMT -5
Okafor has his own injury that needs review as well ... not as serious as Griffin for sure but another with medical history needing review or even physical;
YES. Glad you brought that up. From what I've been told, the C's are MORE concerned about Okafor's knee than they are with Griffin's quad.
However, the same source also said the C's would be super-concerned about Westbrook committing long-term, while assuming Blake would have no problem with waiving his player option?
I've been saying all along that I'd be SHOCKED if Griffin landed in Boston. While I can see Presti trading Westbrook, I CANNOT imagine Doc agreeing to break up a Big 3 (especially one that's still in their prime, and still thirsting for a championship) for Danny Ainge (of all people) and NOT receiving a superstar in return. This scenario MAKES NO SENSE TO ME...however, at the moment, it's a VERY realistic possibility which is no longer up to Doc/Ballmer ('Significant Progess'/'Traction' and is entirely up to Blake Griffin.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 19, 2016 9:29:38 GMT -5
Okafor has his own injury that needs review as well ... not as serious as Griffin for sure but another with medical history needing review or even physical; YES. Glad you brought that up. From what I've been told, the C's are MORE concerned about Okafor's knee than they are with Griffin's quad. However, the same source also said the C's would be super-concerned about Westbrook committing long-term, while assuming Blake would have no problem with waiving his player option? I've been saying all along that I'd be SHOCKED if Griffin landed in Boston. While I can see Presti trading Westbrook, I CANNOT imagine Doc agreeing to break up a Big 3 (especially one that's still in their prime, and still thirsting for a championship) for Danny Ainge (of all people) and NOT receiving a superstar in return. This scenario MAKES NO SENSE TO ME...however, at the moment, it's a VERY realistic possibility which is no longer up to Doc/Ballmer ('Significant Progess'/'Traction' and is entirely up to Blake Griffin. I heard Doc would try to get Rudy Gay from SAC in the trade. Paul, Gay and Jordan will give more scoring, and they have a Moute, Johnson, Speights and Stone to fill in for Griffin
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Post by drewski6 on Jul 19, 2016 9:59:55 GMT -5
Gay is not enough though. They'll want Gay and something else. If its a late first round pick, or even a couple of them, okay. If its the Nets pick, and we are already parting w one of Avery/Jae, Im not necessarily out, but Id like to shop the package around and see if we can do a bit better than Griffin.
If not, I still make the trade. Like I've been saying, these Nets picks are very overvalued. They are very unlikely to be #1 overall and unlikely to be #2 overall. Nets just have no incentive to tank.
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Post by cgreensmashmachine on Jul 19, 2016 10:18:13 GMT -5
Hedley- Paul, Gay, and Jordan will give more scoring? You mean they'll give more points to the other team? I'm confused? You do realize that Gay averaged 17 pts last season, and Griffin averaged 21 pts, right? What are you trying to say? (*Note- Blake's primary 'fill-in' would be Brandon Bass thus fueling the speculation that Blake's getting dealt)
"If its a late first round pick, or even a couple of them, okay. If its the Nets pick, and we are already parting w one of Avery/Jae, Im not necessarily out, but Id like to shop the package around and see if we can do a bit better than Griffin"
The Celtics will not include either BKN pick in a deal for Griffin. However, besides AB, and besides getting Gay via Crowder, LAC also wants more (aka "The King's Ransome" as reported by A. Sherrod), so I'm guessing, at a minimum, this deal would cost us: AB, Crowder, two 1st rounders (non-BKN) and two 2nd rounders.
Like most of you, I'd be fine with this as long as we don't trade our BKN picks.
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myurkus
D-League Assignee
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Post by myurkus on Jul 19, 2016 10:41:10 GMT -5
I disagree with the thought that the nets picks are overvalued. Of course, they may not necessarily be the first pick, as even the worst record only has like a 30% chance to get the first pick. However, that is the greatest chance. The worst record will pretty much always get a first 3 pick, and this draft is "supposed" to be stacked. So the picks are extremely valuable. I agree that Brooklyn wont tank, however they are atrocious, so they don't need to tank to be the worst team in the league. I really cant say there is a worse team, I think Phoenix is improving and not in the mindset to tank either, and the Lakers and Sixers should improve.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 19, 2016 11:33:17 GMT -5
Hedley- Paul, Gay, and Jordan will give more scoring? You mean they'll give more points to the other team? I'm confused? You do realize that Gay averaged 17 pts last season, and Griffin averaged 21 pts, right? What are you trying to say? (*Note- Blake's primary 'fill-in' would be Brandon Bass thus fueling the speculation that Blake's getting dealt) "If its a late first round pick, or even a couple of them, okay. If its the Nets pick, and we are already parting w one of Avery/Jae, Im not necessarily out, but Id like to shop the package around and see if we can do a bit better than Griffin" The Celtics will not include either BKN pick in a deal for Griffin. However, besides AB, and besides getting Gay via Crowder, LAC also wants more (aka "The King's Ransome" as reported by A. Sherrod), so I'm guessing, at a minimum, this deal would cost us: AB, Crowder, two 1st rounders (non-BKN) and two 2nd rounders. Like most of you, I'd be fine with this as long as we don't trade our BKN picks. Gay gives them more perimeter scoring, and a guy who can close games other than Paul. Also, it's overall scoring that would improve for the Clips. Jordans numbers will go up, and a Moute, Redick, et al, will benefit from having Gay. Brandon Bass will NOT start on this team.
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Post by croc on Jul 19, 2016 11:46:19 GMT -5
Ok. So I've got some legit, hot-stove stuff regarding the state of the Celtics Trade Expedition going on in Cali. Pretty much all of it is what most of you already suspect, but here it is in black and white: Griffin's health is not an issue, it's his willingness to commit to Boston long-term. DA, Stevens, IT are all trying to sell Boston as a long-term competitive team. And despite the rumors, Blake is seriously considering it. Although like what A. Sherrod Blakely reported, it's unlikely that Griffin will wind up here. He's very comfortable where he is. (Note the good news is that the framework is in place, but DA won't pull the trigger without a full commitment, first) The rumors surrounding Jahlil are NOT a smoke screen. IF Blake rejects us (which he probably will), the C's have maintained their interest in Jahlil as a last resort. They're not crazy about Okafor because, part of the pitch to Horford was, a competive team right now, so they're trying not to surround Al with too many young players. Sources have confirmed that Okafor is Plan B. And as A. Sherrod reported earlier today, the Plan A's (Griffin, Westbrook, Cousins, Love) are all very unlikely..at least during this summer. Anything else besides this is purely speculation, like-- When will things begin to happen? And what pieces would be involved? I think that a decision from Blake will happen sometime this week, and immediately afterwards, we'll rapidly begin to see the other little dominos start to fall (like Shooter??? James Young and Tyler Zeller status? Yabu's status?) Things are about to start getting fun. The Griffin and Okafor rumors are real! Okafor has his own injury that needs review as well ... not as serious as Griffin for sure but another with medical history needing review or even physical; Okafor is still rehabbing from surgery in February to repair a torn meniscus, but he hopes to be cleared for five-on-five play soon.
www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/07/eastern-notes-okafor-simmons-millsap-young.html
I know there are different degrees, but it took me about 3 weeks to recoup from a torn meniscus.
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Post by Cabutan on Jul 20, 2016 12:06:47 GMT -5
I think there is something going on because is taking too long for Danny to sign guys. But I dont think we will either Griffin or Westbrook. I do think that those teams are involved though and maybe one more team. So..I think we will end up landing someone from OKC not named Westbrook and someone from another team not being the Clippers or OKC...thats just a guess
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Post by mellymel6 on Jul 21, 2016 15:51:59 GMT -5
Well...whenever they pull the trigger.....I'll be interested....until then....I'm waiting on the Pats to start camp.....DA looks like he's working some sort of plan, laying back in the cut for something, somewhere from somebody and I wish him and us goodluck...I'll believe it when I see it.......
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Post by billge on Jul 21, 2016 16:30:17 GMT -5
Yeah Mel, he's got a plan, but he's got to keep it secret. Just like you know who.
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Post by drboogiebone on Jul 22, 2016 5:40:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind it one bit if the plan was to stay pat, and go into next summer with a top 5 pick and enough money for a max contract player. It's VERY plausible that we can get both, and that would set this team up for a very, very bright future. Sounds like a good plan to me.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 22, 2016 9:34:17 GMT -5
Word today is that the Celtics still like Okafor, but are concerned about his off-court behavior last year, especially in Boston. So, they are not going to offer that much for him at this time. I like the kid, and would welcome him with open arms. Hopefully, he is just that, a kid. One who made a couple of mistakes in his rookie year. I think he will learn. He did go to Duke, and they don't let many dummies in there!!
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Post by croc on Jul 22, 2016 10:48:57 GMT -5
Horford is a strong leader. He'd be a great influence. Okafor is okay, he might become very good some day. Horford could help with that. He'd still be the consolation prize.
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Post by Admin on Jul 22, 2016 16:27:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind it one bit if the plan was to stay pat, and go into next summer with a top 5 pick and enough money for a max contract player. It's VERY plausible that we can get both, and that would set this team up for a very, very bright future. Sounds like a good plan to me. the case in favor of your opinion ... hardwoodhoudini.com/2016/07/22/celtics-dont-need-to-make-another-move-this-offseason/ ... back to the Okafor rumors. The rumors that will no longer include the third pick in the draft. Now, with Ainge unwilling to move the Brooklyn picks or any of their core for Okafor – which is a smart move for a player at Okafor’s caliber – it will become even harder to strike up a deal for the young big man.
It’s not all bad news though, as Boston doesn’t need to make another move this offseason, especially if it’s to add Okafor. I was all for adding Okafor before the draft. I felt he would turn out better than nearly anyone Boston could have selected with the third pick.
Also, assuming they would sign Horford or eventually sign a big name center, Okafor would thrive in a role in which he could focus on his offense and not have too much of a responsibility on defense. Brad Stevens is one of the best coaches in the league when it comes to covering up player’s flaws, and there’s little doubt that he would have been able to do that with Okafor.
Although, the time when Boston had a pick worth the value of Jahlil Okafor is gone, and they should enter next season with their current roster. He would make the Celtics better and upgrade their front court miles ahead of where it was last season. But, when it comes down to it, unless Boston is only giving up a package of their bench players – R.J. Hunter, Kelly Olynyk, James Young, Jonas Jerebko, etc – it doesn’t seem worth it.
Okafor alone isn’t enough to move them ahead of Cleveland, therefore he’s not worth losing any major part of their rotation for when Boston could look at next summer to try to acquire someone more valuable than him. Acquiring Westbrook or Griffin might not be enough either, depending on what they would have to give up.
With the 2017 free agency class loaded, the Celtics will have an even bigger selection of players to choose from, including the two they’re eyeing this summer. Boston also wouldn’t have to potentially gut the young core that got them to this point, and ruin the depth that would make them so hard to beat if they were to attract another top-tier player via free agency.
When it comes down to it, Boston can’t try to leapfrog over the Cavaliers in one summer. They got exceptional luck over the past three seasons that helped them get to this point – already out of the rebuilding phase – but they’re still a team who hasn’t gotten out of the first round under Brad Stevens. Continuing to build at a steady pace and going into next offseason with momentum is the right move. The last thing Boston wants is to gut their strong core, even if it does mean acquiring a star like Westbrook or Griffin.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 22, 2016 16:58:05 GMT -5
The key sentence in there (which many should read) is "they cannot leapfrog over the Cavs in one summer." That is what I have been saying for two years now- get better and better each year. Eventually, LeBron will slow down, and we will be there - that's they way the league has worked for a long time. No one added to this team puts us past CLE, not even Durant. BUT, in two or three years - with steady improvement - we should be right there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 17:07:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind it one bit if the plan was to stay pat, and go into next summer with a top 5 pick and enough money for a max contract player. It's VERY plausible that we can get both, and that would set this team up for a very, very bright future. Sounds like a good plan to me. My thought to were not contending this year so take our time. Funny how some of the folks say they can wait but jump on the bandwagon for almost any players name that is mentioned. Which is it?
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 22, 2016 17:55:57 GMT -5
As long as it improves the team, I'm all for it! Nice, subtle reference there darryl!
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Post by mellymel6 on Jul 22, 2016 18:09:07 GMT -5
Word today is that the Celtics still like Okafor, but are concerned about his off-court behavior last year, especially in Boston. So, they are not going to offer that much for him at this time. I like the kid, and would welcome him with open arms. Hopefully, he is just that, a kid. One who made a couple of mistakes in his rookie year. I think he will learn. He did go to Duke, and they don't let many dummies in there!! Agreed...the kid was baited by some Boston fans who got under his skin...Being a real Born-In-Boston Crazy Fan, I can imagine the hard time they gave him and what they said to him. Anyone that young would be hard pressed not to go off. Once he's here, he wouldn't have to worry about Boston fans any longer, and they're about the worst .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2016 19:16:25 GMT -5
I'm sure the concern is more about his on court activity then one incident with a nasty Boston fan. My guees is Ainge wants Noel and not Okafor. The off court worries are just a smoke screen.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jul 22, 2016 20:21:39 GMT -5
As many know - there were TWO off court incidents last summer. The first was the aforementioned one in BOS. The second? A cop held him at gunpoint because he was driving over a bridge in PHI at over 100 mph. Not a smoke screen at all:
They have concerns about his playing in the city after being involved in two street fights there in the early hours of Thanksgiving morning. Nor do they like the fact that the center saw a gun pointed at his head in Old City and that he was stopped for going 108 mph over the Ben Franklin Bridge. 13 hours ago – via Philadelphia Inquirer
I don't make stuff up!!
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myurkus
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Post by myurkus on Jul 22, 2016 20:22:53 GMT -5
Slow down on Noel. He hasnt done anything special yet and he is a one year rental, and then will demand big bucks, which right now he will get. Okafor had a really solid rookie year until he got hurt. He would be a nice addition at a very friendly price tag for 3 years. Of course it depends what we give up for him, but the kid is only 20, by all accounts a smart kid, and really skilled. We could do a lot worse.
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Post by Admin on Jul 22, 2016 20:33:21 GMT -5
Slow down on Noel. He hasnt done anything special yet and he is a one year rental, and then will demand big bucks, which right now he will get. Okafor had a really solid rookie year until he got hurt. He would be a nice addition at a very friendly price tag for 3 years. Of course it depends what we give up for him, but the kid is only 20, by all accounts a smart kid, and really skilled. We could do a lot worse. So what's your preference ... Okafor now if a mutually acceptable deal can be made or wait for Noel to reach free agency?
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