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Post by croc on Jan 3, 2021 7:14:05 GMT -5
Some of you commented on the Pats future in the Celts game thread. Well lets talk about it.
They've got a ton of cap space. They'll draft circa 15 and they have their #1, #2,(~45) a #3 comp for Brady, their #4 and 2 4th round comps. They lost their #3 because Goodell thinks filming men's asses is a big deal. NLF teams can turn around fast by adding 3 or 4 studs.
I think they should largely draft on D. They've gotten studs Big Sey, Mayo, Warren, VW, Tower, Jones in the draft and not much in the way of O from the first round in the draft. BB has been fairly good with O trades and signings: Moss, WW, Branch wanted Sanders.
It seems like SF wants out of JG and he'd be great as a starter for 3 or so years to develop the next guy. That's likely a trade, somehow a 3rd rounder plus works. Plenty of TEs entering FA Hunter Henry and Gerald Everett to name 2. Plenty of WRs too Godwin, Robinson, Mack Jones, Hilton and more. They value TEs more than WR. I think Henry would be a great target. Hilton or Jones are probably not horribly expensive, but Godwin would be ideal.
I think if they add JG, Henry and Jones to the O. Draft a stud LB or DL at 15 and reverse that for a solid LB or SL at ~47 they will be a playoff team if not a contender. Next you look for the QB in the draft. Trask may be available in the 3rd rd. BB needs to rely on his scouts and staff (Ernie/Caserio) in the draft not his coaching buddies. His staff is responsible for some hits: Onwenu, JC, Harris, Meyers, Edelman, Ryan, JG and more
JG has an injury history this is true. He needs to learn to protect himself better. If nothing else at least they pounded that into Cam's head. There's hope. Despite the Talk Show banter I don't think they are through with Stidham, but he's viewed as a back up. There are other decent QBs that might be available: Stafford, Bridgewater.
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Post by solly on Jan 3, 2021 7:32:47 GMT -5
I think next year they very well could be the same as this year or worse. Obviously depending on who they get to play quarterback.
Gilmore is probably gone, thuney, andrews, etc. a lot of their cap will be resigning their guys or replacing them to start.
I hope they go front 7 in the draft as well, they have virtually no talent there. Also if one of those qbs falls to them I have no disagreement with taking one as well. I think I’d go the route of finding the great quarterback then building around him then building a great team with an average to good qb
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Post by croc on Jan 3, 2021 8:22:27 GMT -5
Gilmore might fit as a trade of vets, maybe for a QB. He's only due $7M next year and will not play for that. He'll need an extension, and btw extending JGs contract make it fits better too. I'd count on them re-signing Andrews and let Thuney walk. They have Onwenu for his spot.
What QB will be there at 15? Maybe Jones, he's been accurate, with a so-so arm and with a tremendous set of skilled receivers. I hear Danger Will Robinson with all the top picks except Wilson who they could build around. Trevor looked very human last week, and vs LSU last year. Fields is all up and down. Unless it's Wilson I'd pass on a 1st rd QB. Might as well make a later round QB a project. Trask as a project is intriguing.
Some opt outs: Tower, Cannon and LaCosse returning provide some help or depth.
I'd expect the 2021 team to be no better than a play off team.
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Post by solly on Jan 3, 2021 8:43:08 GMT -5
Gilmore might fit as a trade of vets, maybe for a QB. He's only due $7M next year and will not play for that. He'll need an extension, and btw extending JGs contract make it fits better too. I'd count on them re-signing Andrews and let Thuney walk. They have Onwenu for his spot. What QB will be there at 15? Maybe Jones, he's been accurate, with a so-so arm and with a tremendous set of skilled receivers. I hear Danger Will Robinson with all the top picks except Wilson who they could build around. Trevor looked very human last week, and vs LSU last year. Fields is all up and down. Unless it's Wilson I'd pass on a 1st rd QB. Might as well make a later round QB a project. Trask as a project is intriguing. Some opt outs: Tower, Cannon and LaCosse returning provide some help or depth. I'd expect the 2021 team to be no better than a play off team. Ya I agree about Andrews and thuney. I just don’t see them extending Gilmore for the money he wants at his age. They never do it, didn’t for revis most recently. Which makes both of your strengths worse. We saw what it’s like with no Gilmore out there on Monday. As for the QBs, I honestly don’t know who who will go where, I don’t watch much college football at all. But I know if they like somebody in that range and take them I’d hope they think he can play. I’m all for getting Jimmy back, not sure if SF will let him go though They very well could be 6-10 again or a fringe playoff team next year, really depends on the qb play, which in this league makes sense
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Post by croc on Jan 3, 2021 9:09:26 GMT -5
Gilmore might fit as a trade of vets, maybe for a QB. He's only due $7M next year and will not play for that. He'll need an extension, and btw extending JGs contract make it fits better too. I'd count on them re-signing Andrews and let Thuney walk. They have Onwenu for his spot. What QB will be there at 15? Maybe Jones, he's been accurate, with a so-so arm and with a tremendous set of skilled receivers. I hear Danger Will Robinson with all the top picks except Wilson who they could build around. Trevor looked very human last week, and vs LSU last year. Fields is all up and down. Unless it's Wilson I'd pass on a 1st rd QB. Might as well make a later round QB a project. Trask as a project is intriguing. Some opt outs: Tower, Cannon and LaCosse returning provide some help or depth. I'd expect the 2021 team to be no better than a play off team. Ya I agree about Andrews and thuney. I just don’t see them extending Gilmore for the money he wants at his age. They never do it, didn’t for revis most recently. Which makes both of your strengths worse. We saw what it’s like with no Gilmore out there on Monday. As for the QBs, I honestly don’t know who who will go where, I don’t watch much college football at all. But I know if they like somebody in that range and take them I’d hope they think he can play. I’m all for getting Jimmy back, not sure if SF will let him go though They very well could be 6-10 again or a fringe playoff team next year, really depends on the qb play, which in this league makes sense We saw what it's like with no pass rush even more. Gilmore also struggled. The first half at least of 2019 they had a sustained pass rush if not a lot of sacks. I'd argue the pass rush makes the DBs look much better even without Gilmore. Fix the front 7 and they may be okay. Agreed on the QB play! They need to upgrade the weapons too. Meyers and Bird seem like okay complementary pieces. White is good too, if the QB can throw a screen. They need some higher octane weapons at WR and TE. Seems like they whiffed on the rookie TEs and Harry, ugh! It was simply amazing with all the WR studs in the 2019 draft they got the one dud. ... Harry, Asiasi and Keene might want to try a 3 Stooges-esque gig on ESPN.
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Post by solly on Jan 3, 2021 9:22:10 GMT -5
Ya I agree about Andrews and thuney. I just don’t see them extending Gilmore for the money he wants at his age. They never do it, didn’t for revis most recently. Which makes both of your strengths worse. We saw what it’s like with no Gilmore out there on Monday. As for the QBs, I honestly don’t know who who will go where, I don’t watch much college football at all. But I know if they like somebody in that range and take them I’d hope they think he can play. I’m all for getting Jimmy back, not sure if SF will let him go though They very well could be 6-10 again or a fringe playoff team next year, really depends on the qb play, which in this league makes sense We saw what it's like with no pass rush even more. Gilmore also struggled. The first half at least of 2019 they had a sustained pass rush if not a lot of sacks. I'd argue the pass rush makes the DBs look much better even without Gilmore. Fix the front 7 and they may be okay. Agreed on the QB play! They need to upgrade the weapons too. Meyers and Bird seem like okay complementary pieces. White is good too, if the QB can throw a screen. They need some higher octane weapons at WR and TE. Seems like they whiffed on the rookie TEs and Harry, ugh! It was simply amazing with all the WR studs in the 2019 draft they got the one dud. ... Harry, Asiasi and Keene might want to try a 3 Stooges-esque gig on ESPN. Oh no doubt, I think their secondary is good enough to be good without Gilmore. Don’t think they’d be a league best unit like they are now was my point. I’m all for front 7 help, they need it and I’d address that big time in the draft. They just have no foundation players on either side of the ball, minus mccourty/Gilmore and we talked about Gilmore. It’s a bit scary
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Post by croc on Jan 3, 2021 11:43:48 GMT -5
BTW Shefter has posted Cam and the Pats wil part ways. Good luck somewhere else...maybe a TV studio.
11:01
Dov KleimanDov Kleiman @nfl_DovKleiman
The #Patriots and QB Cam Newton are expected to part ways this off-season, per @adamschefter
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Post by solly on Jan 3, 2021 11:57:26 GMT -5
Thank god for that, when mike Lombardi was saying he thinks he was gonna be back, I thought that was bad news. Just how tied in he is to Bill
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 3, 2021 17:46:12 GMT -5
I think Shefters wrong. Time will tell.
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Post by croc on Jan 3, 2021 21:51:37 GMT -5
It makes no sense to return a round peg to a square hole.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 9:09:12 GMT -5
Time to look long term and draft and develop a quarterback and reset the core of your roster going forward. There are simply too many holes to compete with a veteran Bridge qb in the near future.
But, the fact that Mike Lombardi said that Bill may want a 2nd year with Cam makes me wonder. Mike is basically Bills mouthpiece in the media and has said some pretty suspicious things in the past that have come true
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Post by croc on Jan 4, 2021 11:36:36 GMT -5
Time to look long term and draft and develop a quarterback and reset the core of your roster going forward. There are simply too many holes to compete with a veteran Bridge qb in the near future. But, the fact that Mike Lombardi said that Bill may want a 2nd year with Cam makes me wonder. Mike is basically Bills mouthpiece in the media and has said some pretty suspicious things in the past that have come true If they think Trey Lance is their guy. Keeping Cam is more understandable. He's got many of the same tools Cam had coming out of college big/mobile can run over people, big arm. He's a better passer but not a big as Cam, still the comp is there. Deshaun Watson may be a better comp, but you get the idea.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 12:11:06 GMT -5
Time to look long term and draft and develop a quarterback and reset the core of your roster going forward. There are simply too many holes to compete with a veteran Bridge qb in the near future. But, the fact that Mike Lombardi said that Bill may want a 2nd year with Cam makes me wonder. Mike is basically Bills mouthpiece in the media and has said some pretty suspicious things in the past that have come true If they think Trey Lance is their guy. Keeping Cam is more understandable. He's got many of the same tools Cam had coming out of college big/mobile can run over people, big arm. He's a better passer but not a big as Cam, still the comp is there. Deshaun Watson may be a better comp, but you get the idea. Ya, like I said I dont know much about the college players. I dont watch college football at all but If they pick one of them Id assume they like them and id be ok with that. What I dont get is why take a Running back in the first round in 2018 ahead of a Lamar Jackson, when clearly you knew Brady wasnt going to be here for much longer. People can say its cause he was a project and wasnt a natural passer, which is fine. But why sign Cam? Hes the same type of player, just much worse
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Post by croc on Jan 4, 2021 13:15:27 GMT -5
If they think Trey Lance is their guy. Keeping Cam is more understandable. He's got many of the same tools Cam had coming out of college big/mobile can run over people, big arm. He's a better passer but not a big as Cam, still the comp is there. Deshaun Watson may be a better comp, but you get the idea. Ya, like I said I dont know much about the college players. I dont watch college football at all but If they pick one of them Id assume they like them and id be ok with that. What I dont get is why take a Running back in the first round in 2018 ahead of a Lamar Jackson, when clearly you knew Brady wasnt going to be here for much longer. People can say its cause he was a project and wasnt a natural passer, which is fine. But why sign Cam? Hes the same type of player, just much worse Taking a RB is foolish. They got Harris, White, Faulk, Ridley, Vereen, Redmond all with lower rd picks. They thought Michel would be another Kamara. Signing Cam was like the Middle school dance when everyone else is paired off except you and the girl no one else wanted to dance with. BTW Josh wanted them to take Jackson.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 13:50:55 GMT -5
Ya, like I said I dont know much about the college players. I dont watch college football at all but If they pick one of them Id assume they like them and id be ok with that. What I dont get is why take a Running back in the first round in 2018 ahead of a Lamar Jackson, when clearly you knew Brady wasnt going to be here for much longer. People can say its cause he was a project and wasnt a natural passer, which is fine. But why sign Cam? Hes the same type of player, just much worse Taking a RB is foolish. They got Harris, White, Faulk, Ridley, Vereen, Redmond all with lower rd picks. They thought Michel would be another Kamara. Signing Cam was like the Middle school dance when everyone else is paired off except you and the girl no one else wanted to dance with. BTW Josh wanted them to take Jackson.Right, which makes no sense as to why he wasnt taken, even if it ended up failing. I take the chance of having your next guy at qb then a running back every time. Im of the belief i never want a running back taken in the first like 80 picks, but thats just me. Based on all the reports, After the 17 Super bowl and the lack of extension for Brady/you knew he wanted out. They had 3 years after Jimmy was traded to have a plan after Bradys departure. Them signing Cam, looks to be opposite of what they look for in a quarterback....Just shows their lack of plan post Brady and true desperation I truly believe Bill thought he couldve won with just about anybody playing quarterback. And boy did that backfire
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Post by croc on Jan 4, 2021 14:17:04 GMT -5
Taking a RB is foolish. They got Harris, White, Faulk, Ridley, Vereen, Redmond all with lower rd picks. They thought Michel would be another Kamara. Signing Cam was like the Middle school dance when everyone else is paired off except you and the girl no one else wanted to dance with. BTW Josh wanted them to take Jackson.Right, which makes no sense as to why he wasnt taken, even if it ended up failing. I take the chance of having your next guy at qb then a running back every time. Im of the belief i never want a running back taken in the first like 80 picks, but thats just me. Based on all the reports, After the 17 Super bowl and the lack of extension for Brady/you knew he wanted out. They had 3 years after Jimmy was traded to have a plan after Bradys departure. Them signing Cam, looks to be opposite of what they look for in a quarterback....Just shows their lack of plan post Brady and true desperation I truly believe Bill thought he couldve won with just about anybody playing quarterback. And boy did that backfireThere's a lot of truth here. He proved himself wrong in spades. I know part of the thinking with Michel is if we have a Kamara we can live with an older QB with diminishing skills. Strike one Jackson plus Michel can only run semi-reliably. They had gone to more of a running attack the last few years. (Gee would Jackson look good there.) BB ignored the passing game for the most part. He did draft Harry - a good blocker btw, sign AB and trade for Sanu. AB and Sanu were desperation moves and all blew up in his face. Strike 2...Meanwhile in Tampa Brady showed if he has weapons he can still pass. Strike 3. Brady was was at least good enough to win a SB with marginal talent, and get them to the playoffs with nothing. Cam not so much. BB has done this before post 2004 when he didn't replace coaches after Weiss and Crennel and talent (Willie plus) left. Then he threw his hands up after 2006 and broght in new OC DC and talent"Moss, WW, Dillon and others. Hopefully this go round gets him to reverse the latest cranial rectal inversion.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 14:29:16 GMT -5
Right, which makes no sense as to why he wasnt taken, even if it ended up failing. I take the chance of having your next guy at qb then a running back every time. Im of the belief i never want a running back taken in the first like 80 picks, but thats just me. Based on all the reports, After the 17 Super bowl and the lack of extension for Brady/you knew he wanted out. They had 3 years after Jimmy was traded to have a plan after Bradys departure. Them signing Cam, looks to be opposite of what they look for in a quarterback....Just shows their lack of plan post Brady and true desperation I truly believe Bill thought he couldve won with just about anybody playing quarterback. And boy did that backfireThere's a lot of truth here. He proved himself wrong in spades. I know part of the thinking with Michel is if we have a Kamara we can live with an older QB with diminishing skills. Strike one Jackson plus Michel can only run semi-reliably. They had gone to more of a running attack the last few years. (Gee would Jackson look good there.) BB ignored the passing game for the most part. He did draft Harry - a good blocker btw, sign AB and trade for Sanu. AB and Sanu were desperation moves and all blew up in his face. Strike 2...Meanwhile in Tampa Brady showed if he has weapons he can still pass. Strike 3. Brady was was at least good enough to win a SB with marginal talent, and get them to the playoffs with nothing. Cam not so much. BB has done this before post 2004 when he didn't replace coaches after Weiss and Crennel and talent (Willie plus) left. Then he threw his hands up after 2006 and broght in new OC DC and talent"Moss, WW, Dillon and others. Hopefully this go round gets him to reverse the latest cranial rectal inversion. Ya, the easy part of 06 to 07 was he already had the best quarterback in the league. So its a little easier to pick your weapons when thats in place. Now they are completely retooling the offensive side. I think Zolak on the radio today summed up what Bill may have missed without Brady. He said Bill went 20 years without having to worry about the offensive side of the ball/adjustments, etc. He had Brady/Weiss and Brady/McDaniels. That side of the ball was always in good hands and he could worry about the defense. Now this year, he had to worry about every play on both sides of the ball. Dont know if he thought that one through. Going back to not extending Brady. I honestly dont have a problem with it (Hes my favorite athlete, so I wouldve liked to see him stay obviously) but its the fact he committed to no side of the qb situation. They let Jimmy go (Krafts doing most likely), but also didnt commit to finding his next qb and also didnt commit to Brady. He was directly in the middle of the fence
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Post by croc on Jan 4, 2021 15:00:45 GMT -5
There are several who think they should combine many of those eggs into the new QB basket now. If that fails like so many do then you've got nothing
I'm still on the re-tool with drafting on D where he knows what he's doing, getting a QB prospect to groom a bit later in the draft, while signing / trading younger vets on O. He's done that well too. You get a couple studs on each side of the ball and they make everyone else look that much better.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 15:02:57 GMT -5
There are several who think they should combine many of those eggs into the new QB basket now. If that fails like so many do then you've got nothing I'm still on the re-tool with drafting on D where he knows what he's doing, getting a QB prospect to groom, while signing / trading younger vets on O. He's done that well too. You get a couple studs on each side of the ball and they make everyone else look that much better. I have no problems with that. They essentially need a few foundational young players on both sides of the ball going forward. Their roster really is pretty poor all around, minus the secondary I also dont need a quarterback in that top tier of rookies. If they target somebody and select him in the 2nd round, im ok with that. Just need a young guy to develop at some point. Clearly they hate Stidham
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 4, 2021 18:58:48 GMT -5
Right, which makes no sense as to why he wasnt taken, even if it ended up failing. I take the chance of having your next guy at qb then a running back every time. Im of the belief i never want a running back taken in the first like 80 picks, but thats just me. Based on all the reports, After the 17 Super bowl and the lack of extension for Brady/you knew he wanted out. They had 3 years after Jimmy was traded to have a plan after Bradys departure. Them signing Cam, looks to be opposite of what they look for in a quarterback....Just shows their lack of plan post Brady and true desperation I truly believe Bill thought he couldve won with just about anybody playing quarterback. And boy did that backfireThere's a lot of truth here. He proved himself wrong in spades. I know part of the thinking with Michel is if we have a Kamara we can live with an older QB with diminishing skills. Strike one Jackson plus Michel can only run semi-reliably. They had gone to more of a running attack the last few years. (Gee would Jackson look good there.) BB ignored the passing game for the most part. He did draft Harry - a good blocker btw, sign AB and trade for Sanu. AB and Sanu were desperation moves and all blew up in his face. Strike 2...Meanwhile in Tampa Brady showed if he has weapons he can still pass. Strike 3. Brady was was at least good enough to win a SB with marginal talent, and get them to the playoffs with nothing. Cam not so much. BB has done this before post 2004 when he didn't replace coaches after Weiss and Crennel and talent (Willie plus) left. Then he threw his hands up after 2006 and broght in new OC DC and talent"Moss, WW, Dillon and others. Hopefully this go round gets him to reverse the latest cranial rectal inversion. Well if they thought that Michel was a Kamara then they need their eyes checked.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 19:13:15 GMT -5
There's a lot of truth here. He proved himself wrong in spades. I know part of the thinking with Michel is if we have a Kamara we can live with an older QB with diminishing skills. Strike one Jackson plus Michel can only run semi-reliably. They had gone to more of a running attack the last few years. (Gee would Jackson look good there.) BB ignored the passing game for the most part. He did draft Harry - a good blocker btw, sign AB and trade for Sanu. AB and Sanu were desperation moves and all blew up in his face. Strike 2...Meanwhile in Tampa Brady showed if he has weapons he can still pass. Strike 3. Brady was was at least good enough to win a SB with marginal talent, and get them to the playoffs with nothing. Cam not so much. BB has done this before post 2004 when he didn't replace coaches after Weiss and Crennel and talent (Willie plus) left. Then he threw his hands up after 2006 and broght in new OC DC and talent"Moss, WW, Dillon and others. Hopefully this go round gets him to reverse the latest cranial rectal inversion. Well if they thought that Michel was a Kamara then they need their eyes checked. Hahahah what’s funny is that kamara was the comp on the draft shows too. Instead they picked a fat, slow, non elusive running back who can’t catch
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 4, 2021 19:13:58 GMT -5
Well if they thought that Michel was a Kamara then they need their eyes checked. Hahahah what’s funny is that kamara was the comp on the draft shows too. Instead they picked a fat, slow, non elusive running back who can’t catch Amen.
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Post by solly on Jan 4, 2021 20:11:28 GMT -5
I love bill and I love the patriots, but I also simply cannot take the excuse making he’s been spewing this year. He’s too good for that
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 4, 2021 23:08:03 GMT -5
I'm going to give him a pass, even though his drafting made this mess. He has earned it. He has also earned the right to remind us of it.
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Post by croc on Jan 5, 2021 5:08:50 GMT -5
There's a lot of truth here. He proved himself wrong in spades. I know part of the thinking with Michel is if we have a Kamara we can live with an older QB with diminishing skills. Strike one Jackson plus Michel can only run semi-reliably. They had gone to more of a running attack the last few years. (Gee would Jackson look good there.) BB ignored the passing game for the most part. He did draft Harry - a good blocker btw, sign AB and trade for Sanu. AB and Sanu were desperation moves and all blew up in his face. Strike 2...Meanwhile in Tampa Brady showed if he has weapons he can still pass. Strike 3. Brady was was at least good enough to win a SB with marginal talent, and get them to the playoffs with nothing. Cam not so much. BB has done this before post 2004 when he didn't replace coaches after Weiss and Crennel and talent (Willie plus) left. Then he threw his hands up after 2006 and broght in new OC DC and talent"Moss, WW, Dillon and others. Hopefully this go round gets him to reverse the latest cranial rectal inversion. Well if they thought that Michel was a Kamara then they need their eyes checked. In college he was, and they weren't alone. His pass catching didn't translate to the NFL. Still not a horrible runner he was a big part of their last Super Bowl run. He gets hurt too often. The Pats made the mistake other teams were going to make taking him high
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