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Post by cole on Jan 31, 2024 10:25:41 GMT -5
The rule I was thinking of wasn't a rule of how fast you can trade a player. The rule prevented you from taking that player back until like a year had passed or until he had gone to a second team.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 10:29:55 GMT -5
we can squeeze Otto Porter (tor) into that Grant TPE and send back one of the 3 seconds Boston has in next years draft. Porter is on an expiring deal, but Boston would retain his bird rights next season. of course Health is always a concern with Porter it seems. C. Okeke (orl) is another who fits into the TPE and is a "big wing" that Opie has spoken of wanting. I've always liked J. Smith from Indiana, but he has two years, even if he fits the TPE I think the cost would, be a first round pick for him. I might do something like this though: View Attachment
I like the Smith idea and don't mind giving up a 1st when we're getting more than a rental. That said, I don't see why the Pacers would help us now when they are destined to meet us at some point in the playoffs.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 10:33:59 GMT -5
The rule I was thinking of wasn't a rule of how fast you can trade a player. The rule prevented you from taking that player back until like a year had passed or until he had gone to a second team.
For a player previously under contract to your team as in Muscala or Gallo ...
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 31, 2024 10:58:21 GMT -5
So you can flip him one for one but not as part of a multi-player deal?
Then how'd the Rockets flip 2 contracts for Paul the same day they acquired them?
Because a TPE wasnt involved. You can generally flip immediately, its viewed like a multi-step 3 team trade. But when you want to turn the TPE (an asset that cant be aggregated) into an asset that can be aggregated (a player), theres a waiting period.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 31, 2024 11:12:15 GMT -5
OK ... I found this - as long as an acquired player is flipped alone it can be done immediately but if being combine there is a 60 day waiting period. Can an NBA player be traded right after being traded? If the acquiring team is over the cap upon executing the first trade, the player has an aggregation restriction for 60 days. In other words, the player can be re-traded immediately, but his salary cannot be combined with another player's salary to acquire a higher-salaried player for roughly two months.
I just don't understand how the Rockets/Morey were able to combine 2 contracts w/ other players for Chris Paul the same day they acquired them - anyone got the answer?
Was there a rule change post 2017 to prevent this from happening again?
Because it became a three-team single trade. You can rework a finalized trade (I assume within x amount of time). So this trade was reworked into a single three-team trade. But if a TPE is involved it complicates that because it cant be aggregated with anything for salary matching purposes.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 11:16:32 GMT -5
So we could turn Svi, Stevens and Banton into a $5-6MM player via trade for 1 player (opening another 2 roster spots) but if we got another $6MM player from the TPE we wouldn't be able to aggregate the two new players ($11MM) for an Olynyk etc?
If that's the case then the best we could do would be to add 2 more vet minimum ($3.9mm) contracts for "cash considerations" (up to max $7.5mm) to the 2 open roster spots and then aggregate them ($7.5mm) with our current guys ($6mm) for a trade of 5 for 1. Odds of getting that done are slim to none with the other side not having the roster spots to do so.
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 31, 2024 11:20:56 GMT -5
we can squeeze Otto Porter (tor) into that Grant TPE and send back one of the 3 seconds Boston has in next years draft. Porter is on an expiring deal, but Boston would retain his bird rights next season. of course Health is always a concern with Porter it seems. C. Okeke (orl) is another who fits into the TPE and is a "big wing" that Opie has spoken of wanting. I've always liked J. Smith from Indiana, but he has two years, even if he fits the TPE I think the cost would, be a first round pick for him. I might do something like this though: View Attachment
I like the Smith idea and don't mind giving up a 1st when we're getting more than a rental. That said, I don't see why the Pacers would help us now when they are destined to meet us at some point in the playoffs.
I would agree as they have Smith as the BU Center now, they do still have I. Jackson who was getting Smith's minutes earlier this year along with Siakam and Toppin as PF types. They also have their top 10 pick Walker on the bench and signed J. Johnson to a second 10- day I think. I've wanted Smith here since he was RFA last year and wanted us to use the MLE on him ( Indy was not allowed to pay him more than the $5M they did due to his trade from Phoenix) . Maybe I Jackson is an easier get in this case then?
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 31, 2024 11:27:34 GMT -5
So we could turn Svi, Stevens and Banton into a $5-6MM player via trade for 1 player (opening another 2 roster spots) but if we got another $6MM player from the TPE we wouldn't be able to aggregate the two new players ($11MM) for an Olynyk etc? correct. Remember a few months ago we said we should take on a guy making 6M dead (no playing time) and get a second out of the deal? The other team saves 6M and gets a TPE (why they throw in a second). Kind of like how we had to throw in a second to turn the Gordon deal into a trade (after he signed). (side notes 1. this shows how things can be reworked after moves (GH had agreed to an offer prior to it turning into a trade 2.we were the ones who had to sweeten because it made no diff to Cha whether it was trade or signing and we wanted the TPE) Back to flashback....We were saying we should flip the TPE into a useless player because 1. we'd get something for taking the bad contract and allowing the other team to create a TPE ...and more importantly, the 6M player (who stinks) would just sit on our bench, but after 60 days can be aggregated with other contracts which expands the universe of who you can get, becaues that player would now be able to be aggregated (because 60 days went by). We both agreed they should do this (months ago) and we'd now be in a position to be able to get a higher $$ player. But they didnt do this for financial reasons (understandably). But if money was no object, they prob would have
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Post by cole on Jan 31, 2024 11:34:31 GMT -5
The rule I was thinking of wasn't a rule of how fast you can trade a player. The rule prevented you from taking that player back until like a year had passed or until he had gone to a second team.
For a player previously under contract to your team as in Muscala or Gallo ...
So we couldn't take smart back if we wanted too, unless he could go through another team first?
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 11:35:40 GMT -5
Agreed ... converting the TPE asap should have been the plan rather than waiting to the trade deadline. Everyone agrees that there's no $6MM contract out there that will make a difference come the playoffs and Brad surely knows that as well which beckons "why didn't he act sooner?"
PS: KDP mentions Jackson w/ Pacers as a potential target and he could be a nice future piece but why would Brad bother when he has no playoff experience. We need vet guys who've been there before (on the cheap) of prospects ready to "break out."
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 11:36:22 GMT -5
For a player previously under contract to your team as in Muscala or Gallo ...
So we couldn't take smart back if we wanted too, unless he could go through another team first?
Exactly!
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 12:04:55 GMT -5
Anyone else think that Miles Bridges would be a terrific rental or might he be a disruption in the locker room?
He's a FA w/ no Bird Rts so he will go to the highest bidder next season. That limits the trade value for CHA to maybe 1-2 2nds.
He'd be a scorer off the bench and a nice respite for either Jay. Brad worries about chemistry so he might not want the risk (assault of spouse or GF) but he'd be cheap and effective for POs.
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Post by cole on Jan 31, 2024 12:41:37 GMT -5
Anyone else think that Miles Bridges would be a terrific rental or might he be a disruption in the locker room? He's a FA w/ no Bird Rts so he will go to the highest bidder next season. That limits the trade value for CHA to maybe 1-2 2nds. He'd be a scorer off the bench and a nice respite for either Jay. Brad worries about chemistry so he might not want the risk (assault of spouse or GF) but he'd be cheap and effective for POs. He's good for sure. He could soak a lot of minutes from the js in the final stretch and we could still win.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 14:19:58 GMT -5
Some rules effecting Celtics ability to make trades, including penalties for being over 2nd apron according to new CBA:
1) Their $6.2MM TPE expires after the trade deadline on 2/8 ... the 1 yr limitation does not apply to existing TPEs once the new season begins. Use it now or lose it!
2) Same applies to their $7MM in cash ... that $7MM if used will cost the team $30MM ($23mm in penalties)
3) Pritchards $4mm contract for C's is a $6.8mm for acquiring team (poison pill) but could still be tradable but harder to pull off
4) Cannot sign a player at/above the MLE of $12.4mm/yr as a buyout/waived candidate (see rule posted below)
5) Can trade up to two 1st rd picks within next 5 yrs only (8 2nds w/ no limitation)
Clarifying The NBA’s New Rule On Post-Buyout Signings by Luke Adams
The NBA’s trade deadline is just 15 days away, which means we’re nearly in buyout season. Several veteran players on lottery-bound teams who are in the final year of their respective contracts will become candidates to be bought out if they’re not traded to a new team on or before February 8.
When the league and the players’ union finalized a new Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2023, they agreed to a new rule that affects the buyout market. This rule hasn’t been a factor yet this season, but it will likely be relevant in the coming weeks. And in the wake of the deal that sent Kyle Lowry to Charlotte, making him a buyout candidate, I’ve seen some confusion about how the rule works and which players are affected, so we’ll offer some clarity here.
First, here’s the new rule: A team whose salary is above either the first or second tax apron is not permitted to sign a free agent on the buyout market if his pre-waiver salary exceeded the non-taxpayer mid-level exception.
For the 2023/24 season, that means that any team whose taxable salary is above $172,346,000 is ineligible to sign a player who was cut this season if he was earning more than $12,405,000.
This applies to both buyouts and standard waivers, so regardless of whether or not the player agreed to give up any money as part of his release, he’s ineligible to sign with an apron team if he had been earning more than $12,405,000.
As Bobby Marks of ESPN noted earlier this week (via Twitter), these are the clubs whose team salaries are currently above the apron levels:
Boston Celtics Denver Nuggets Golden State Warriors Los Angeles Clippers Miami Heat Milwaukee Bucks Phoenix Suns
That means that a player like Lowry, whose $29.7MM salary far exceeds the mid-level exception, would currently be ineligible to sign with one of those seven teams if he’s bought out by the Hornets. However, that list of teams is subject to change as rosters changes and salaries fluctuate.
The Heat, for instance, reduced their payroll in the deal that sent out Lowry for Terry Rozier, whose cap charge is several million dollars smaller than Lowry’s. The Heat are currently above the first apron but well below the second, per Eric Pincus of Sports Business Classroom, so if they were to further trim their payroll, they could gain the ability to sign any player on the buyout market (well, with the exception of Lowry, due to a separate rule prohibiting a team from re-signing a player it traded if he’s waived by his new team).
Conversely, if a team like the Sixers, whose salary is currently less than $3MM shy of the first apron, took on several million dollars in salary in a deadline trade, they’d become ineligible to sign a player like Lowry in the buyout market.
A team can be above the luxury tax line but remain eligible to sign a player on the buyout market, since there’s a gap of approximately $7MM between the tax threshold ($165,294,000) and the first apron. The Lakers, for example, currently project to be a taxpayer, but they have enough room below the apron to ensure this restriction won’t apply to them.
In order to be eligible to sign a player who had been earning more than $12,405,000, the team must have a salary below the first apron upon the completion of the signing — that means a team whose salary is $1MM below the apron can’t offer a player a rest-of-season contract worth $1.2MM.
If a team were to sign a player like Lowry or Gordon Hayward (who is earning $31.5MM) on the buyout market, that club would subsequently be hard-capped at the first apron and would be prohibited from having its salary exceed $172,346,000 for the rest of the season.
Outside of Lowry, Hayward, and perhaps Knicks wing Evan Fournier, it doesn’t look like there will be many buyout candidates earning above the mid-level who would be particularly intriguing on the free agent market.
Players like Gary Harris, Marcus Morris, or Doug McDermott would certainly draw interest, but I don’t see them as viable candidates for buyouts unless they’re traded to a team that views them as a pure salary-matching chip. Guys like Davis Bertans and Joe Harris may appeal to a team in need of shooting, but they’ve barely played this season, so if they were bought out, the competition for their services may not be particularly fierce.
Still, even if this rule only affects a couple players this season, it’s worth keeping in mind. After all, several of the teams in that aforementioned group of seven are legitimate championship contenders. Those are the sorts of clubs that would benefit most from adding one more depth piece, so the fact that that they won’t have access to certain targets on the buyout market is noteworthy.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2024 16:41:15 GMT -5
Celtics interested in Rockets' Jae'Sean Tate Tate is averaging 4.7 points and 3.4 rebounds off Houston's bench this season. By Justin Leger
The Boston Celtics are doing their due diligence with the 2024 NBA trade deadline just over a week away.
According to The Athletic, the C's have expressed interest in Houston Rockets forward Jae'Sean Tate. The Phoenix Suns are also in the mix to acquire the 28-year-old.
Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens said earlier this month that adding a big wing would be a priority. At 6-foot-4, Tate doesn't have the size of some of the other potential options on the trade market. He has also seen his role with the Rockets diminish each season since his 2021 All-Rookie campaign.
Despite those caveats, Tate is an intriguing possibility as a depth piece for Boston. The undrafted Ohio State product once appeared to be a key part of Houston's young core, averaging 11.6 points, 5.4 rebounds and 2.7 assists in 148 games through his first two NBA seasons as a starter.
Tate missed 51 games during the 2022-23 campaign due to a foot injury. This season, he has averaged 4.7 points and 3.4 rebounds off the bench while shooting 47.6 percent from the floor through 43 games.
The Celtics have a $6.2 million Grant Williams traded player exception at their disposal. However, Tate would not fit into that exception with his $6.5 million salary. Boston would have to part ways with depth pieces of its own to make such a deal work.
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 1, 2024 8:41:40 GMT -5
Some rules effecting Celtics ability to make trades, including penalties for being over 2nd apron according to new CBA:
1) Their $6.2MM TPE expires after the trade deadline on 2/8 ... the 1 yr limitation does not apply to existing TPEs once the new season begins. Use it now or lose it!
2) Same applies to their $7MM in cash ... that $7MM if used will cost the team $30MM ($23mm in penalties)
3) Pritchards $4mm contract for C's is a $6.8mm for acquiring team (poison pill) but could still be tradable but harder to pull off
4) Cannot sign a player at/above the MLE of $12.4mm/yr as a buyout/waived candidate (see rule posted below)
5) Can trade up to two 1st rd picks within next 5 yrs only (8 2nds w/ no limitation)
Clarifying The NBA’s New Rule On Post-Buyout Signings by Luke Adams
The NBA’s trade deadline is just 15 days away, which means we’re nearly in buyout season. Several veteran players on lottery-bound teams who are in the final year of their respective contracts will become candidates to be bought out if they’re not traded to a new team on or before February 8.
When the league and the players’ union finalized a new Collective Bargaining Agreement in 2023, they agreed to a new rule that affects the buyout market. This rule hasn’t been a factor yet this season, but it will likely be relevant in the coming weeks. And in the wake of the deal that sent Kyle Lowry to Charlotte, making him a buyout candidate, I’ve seen some confusion about how the rule works and which players are affected, so we’ll offer some clarity here.
First, here’s the new rule: A team whose salary is above either the first or second tax apron is not permitted to sign a free agent on the buyout market if his pre-waiver salary exceeded the non-taxpayer mid-level exception.
For the 2023/24 season, that means that any team whose taxable salary is above $172,346,000 is ineligible to sign a player who was cut this season if he was earning more than $12,405,000.
This applies to both buyouts and standard waivers, so regardless of whether or not the player agreed to give up any money as part of his release, he’s ineligible to sign with an apron team if he had been earning more than $12,405,000.
As Bobby Marks of ESPN noted earlier this week (via Twitter), these are the clubs whose team salaries are currently above the apron levels:
Boston Celtics Denver Nuggets Golden State Warriors Los Angeles Clippers Miami Heat Milwaukee Bucks Phoenix Suns
That means that a player like Lowry, whose $29.7MM salary far exceeds the mid-level exception, would currently be ineligible to sign with one of those seven teams if he’s bought out by the Hornets. However, that list of teams is subject to change as rosters changes and salaries fluctuate.
The Heat, for instance, reduced their payroll in the deal that sent out Lowry for Terry Rozier, whose cap charge is several million dollars smaller than Lowry’s. The Heat are currently above the first apron but well below the second, per Eric Pincus of Sports Business Classroom, so if they were to further trim their payroll, they could gain the ability to sign any player on the buyout market (well, with the exception of Lowry, due to a separate rule prohibiting a team from re-signing a player it traded if he’s waived by his new team).
Conversely, if a team like the Sixers, whose salary is currently less than $3MM shy of the first apron, took on several million dollars in salary in a deadline trade, they’d become ineligible to sign a player like Lowry in the buyout market.
A team can be above the luxury tax line but remain eligible to sign a player on the buyout market, since there’s a gap of approximately $7MM between the tax threshold ($165,294,000) and the first apron. The Lakers, for example, currently project to be a taxpayer, but they have enough room below the apron to ensure this restriction won’t apply to them.
In order to be eligible to sign a player who had been earning more than $12,405,000, the team must have a salary below the first apron upon the completion of the signing — that means a team whose salary is $1MM below the apron can’t offer a player a rest-of-season contract worth $1.2MM.
If a team were to sign a player like Lowry or Gordon Hayward (who is earning $31.5MM) on the buyout market, that club would subsequently be hard-capped at the first apron and would be prohibited from having its salary exceed $172,346,000 for the rest of the season.
Outside of Lowry, Hayward, and perhaps Knicks wing Evan Fournier, it doesn’t look like there will be many buyout candidates earning above the mid-level who would be particularly intriguing on the free agent market.
Players like Gary Harris, Marcus Morris, or Doug McDermott would certainly draw interest, but I don’t see them as viable candidates for buyouts unless they’re traded to a team that views them as a pure salary-matching chip. Guys like Davis Bertans and Joe Harris may appeal to a team in need of shooting, but they’ve barely played this season, so if they were bought out, the competition for their services may not be particularly fierce.
Still, even if this rule only affects a couple players this season, it’s worth keeping in mind. After all, several of the teams in that aforementioned group of seven are legitimate championship contenders. Those are the sorts of clubs that would benefit most from adding one more depth piece, so the fact that that they won’t have access to certain targets on the buyout market is noteworthy.
spotrac says the TPE is good till the end of the NBA year ( July) but not a full calendar year as it used to be. SO the TPE does not go away after the trade deadline, as they may have a few days after the season ends and during the draft to use it still. www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 1, 2024 8:42:43 GMT -5
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Post by Admin on Feb 1, 2024 12:43:08 GMT -5
I'd rather have Gallo ...
Attachments:
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Post by cole on Feb 1, 2024 15:14:59 GMT -5
I'd rather have Gallo ...
And gallo has been traded since our trade, so it's possible
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Post by rkarp1 on Feb 1, 2024 18:26:53 GMT -5
honestly, I would rather Kornet and Q over both. Brissette also brings some nice athleticism and rebounds very well in certain matchups. if someone has some concerns with Hauser (I do not) perhaps someone who can shoot the ball is the potential need.
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Post by rkarp1 on Feb 1, 2024 18:59:05 GMT -5
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 2, 2024 7:41:25 GMT -5
David pingalore @davidpingalore · Follow Hearing from @nba peeps @kingjames is the top of the @lakers list to trade the 39 year old. Pelinka is looking for the right team to dance with and is close to a suitor Lbj and AD both out tonight. @ktla @ktla5sports #nba #Lakers 5:22 PM · Feb 1, 2024
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 2, 2024 7:43:05 GMT -5
Edit: YOWZA!!!!!......Pud
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 2, 2024 9:44:51 GMT -5
here ya go buddy!!
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Post by cole on Feb 2, 2024 9:51:12 GMT -5
Well, that would be insane just in the sense of totally unexpected.
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