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Post by Admin on Jan 28, 2024 17:15:46 GMT -5
So $7MM can be combined w/ outgoing contracts (TPE excluded) ... Two deep bench contracts and cash gets us another contract worth $11-12MM.
That's a horse of a different color from what most if not all the blogs have been predicting!
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2024 11:05:00 GMT -5
Now comes this:
Alex Goodlett/GettyImages
Despite the high unlikelihood of it happening, rumors of the Boston Celtics trading for Kelly Olynyk have been swirling as 98.5 The Sports Hub's Joe Murray pointed out.
"Yes former Celtic Olynyk has been linked to the Celtics multiple times this season," Murray prefaced before saying, "This move would be a little harder for Stevens to pull off because of Olynyk’s contract, but Olynyk fits exactly what Stevens is usually looking for at the deadline. He’s a stretch big man that can space the floor and knock down the 3 when needed. Boston fans are very familiar with Olynyk, as he was drafted by the team in 2013. I don’t think Boston has the money to pull this one off but rumors have been swirling and Stevens has an ability to make moves seemingly out of thin air."
That contract Stevens is referring to is the expiring $12.1 million Olynyk is owed in 2023-24; of which a prorated portion would be paid out by the Cs by the time they'd theoretically land the former Danny Ainge lottery pick.
$5.6MM cash, three non-guaranteed contracts (Svi, Lamar & Dalano) and a few 2nd rounders get it done ...
PS: I don't know if there's a limitation on how much cash can be aggregated with player contracts in a trade but when Morey/Rockets traded for Chris Paul, Morey acquired 4-5 contracts for cash only then used those contracts to aggregate with his own to consummate the deal w/ Clips for Paul. Those were minimum contracts from $1-2MM each. I don't see why you can buy a player for cash but not use that same cash instead to salary match in a potential trade w/ aggregated contracts. Now if there's some other CBA Rule that limits "cash only" trades to "minimum contracts" then jumping thru hoops as Morey did makes sense.
So if you can't trade our 3 contracts w/ $5-6mm in cash toward the matching rule , then we'd have to acquire another player/s with our cash (up to $7mm) and aggregate that player/s with $5mm of our own - the 3 listed above, or in lieu of those, another contract up to $6MM using the TPE.
Attachments:
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2024 11:36:14 GMT -5
A 3-for-1 trade opens up two additional roster spots as well. One to be used to sign Queta to an NBA contract and the other for a potential pick up at trade deadline or a buy-out candidate later with the $6MM TPE.
PS: Maybe add Fontecchio to the Olynyk trade using that TPE and use another 2nd or even our worse FRDP to get it done if competition from OKC or others.
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Post by cole on Jan 29, 2024 11:42:13 GMT -5
Ryan Styles, the locked-on thunder podcaster, has been saying Oly is the move he thinks the thunder should make.
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2024 11:46:12 GMT -5
Ryan Styles, the locked-on thunder podcaster, has been saying Oly is the move he thinks the thunder should make.
We better have the inside track w/ Brad & Danny!
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 29, 2024 17:30:45 GMT -5
Adding cash to a deal can serve multiple purposes. It can be a sweetener to encourage a team to make a deal in the first place – like when a club acquires a second-round pick in exchange for cash, or sends out an unwanted contract along with cash – or it can be a necessity to meet CBA requirements.Boston Celtics
Cash available to send: $7,005,000
Cash available to receive: $7,005,000
as I understand it, the "CBA requirements" they are talking about there is in the case of a team taking on a player and not sending anything back ( player, draft picks, rights to player picked before like Madar say). In that case the CBA requires something be send back ala the cash. there is no way to just add cash to player salary's and bring back a higher salary. even the idea of "trading" for a few players and only sending cash won't really work, as Boston only has one roster spot. Any additional players they try to "trade " for using that tactic, would require them to release another player. You have to have a roster spot to trade FOR a player. we CAN sign Kelly O but only if he is bought out by Utah, as his salary is just under the MLE. any players bought out that are OVER the MLE ( 12.4M) cannot be signed by teams over the second apron. (Boston is one).
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 29, 2024 17:34:10 GMT -5
Also you cannot sign a player as a FA with the TPE, that is only for trades.
and a team cannot add other players salary with a TPE to get a higher salary player back. You can use future drafts picks with a TPE however.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 29, 2024 18:13:13 GMT -5
Ryan Styles, the locked-on thunder podcaster, has been saying Oly is the move he thinks the thunder should make.
We better have the inside track w/ Brad & Danny!
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2024 18:44:57 GMT -5
Adding cash to a deal can serve multiple purposes. It can be a sweetener to encourage a team to make a deal in the first place – like when a club acquires a second-round pick in exchange for cash, or sends out an unwanted contract along with cash – or it can be a necessity to meet CBA requirements.Boston Celtics
Cash available to send: $7,005,000
Cash available to receive: $7,005,000
as I understand it, the "CBA requirements" they are talking about there is in the case of a team taking on a player and not sending anything back ( player, draft picks, rights to player picked before like Madar say). In that case the CBA requires something be send back ala the cash. there is no way to just add cash to player salary's and bring back a higher salary. even the idea of "trading" for a few players and only sending cash won't really work, as Boston only has one roster spot. Any additional players they try to "trade " for using that tactic, would require them to release another player. You have to have a roster spot to trade FOR a player. we CAN sign Kelly O but only if he is bought out by Utah, as his salary is just under the MLE. any players bought out that are OVER the MLE ( 12.4M) cannot be signed by teams over the second apron. (Boston is one).
I understand needing roster spots to add additional players but my point is that as you said, you can't aggregate cash with players for a trade but you can (as the Rockets did for Paul) acquire players for cash only according to that media report w/o sending a pick or player. I'd like to know if that applies to any player acquired up to the max "cash consideration" or just "vet minimum" guys.
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Post by Admin on Jan 29, 2024 18:55:13 GMT -5
Also you cannot sign a player as a FA with the TPE, that is only for trades. and a team cannot add other players salary with a TPE to get a higher salary player back. You can use future drafts picks with a TPE however.
That's common knowledge.
I'm implying that to get Olynyk we could trade 1) TPE (up to 6.2mm) for another player to be flipped along with 2) those 2-3 deep bench players.
If roster spots is an issue for UT then trade those 2-3 bench guys for 1 guy up to $6mm first then trade that guy with the one acquired from the TPE to aggregate the $12mm needed to trade for Kelly.
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 30, 2024 9:02:11 GMT -5
isn't there a rule about trading for a player and including him in another trade with other players?
I thought there was a waiting period on that for some reason.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 30, 2024 9:26:06 GMT -5
isn't there a rule about trading for a player and including him in another trade with other players? I thought there was a waiting period on that for some reason. There is a waiting period, not sure what it is.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 30, 2024 9:26:17 GMT -5
1 or 2 months, I think
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 30, 2024 10:46:35 GMT -5
seems unlikely to happen now being closer to the trading deadline.
I think something like last year (when it was EASIER to get a higher priced player) and the team got Moose Muscala instead is more likely.
or they just bring Blake in for the rest of the season.
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 30, 2024 10:54:49 GMT -5
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Post by Admin on Jan 30, 2024 11:03:15 GMT -5
So you can flip him one for one but not as part of a multi-player deal?
Then how'd the Rockets flip 2 contracts for Paul the same day they acquired them?
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Post by kyceltic on Jan 30, 2024 11:26:47 GMT -5
And I'm still wanting Lonnie Walker! Give the Nets a couple 2nds and Banton or Stevens!
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Post by Admin on Jan 30, 2024 11:41:39 GMT -5
This all took place on Wed 6/28/17 ... 5 minimum contract players acquired for "cash considerations" w/ only the Sixers getting a pick as well. Once added, at least 2 were flipped that same day for Chris Paul along w/ Beverley, Dekker, Harrell & Lou Williams.
Paul agreed to opt into his player option, which allowed the Los Angeles Clippers to flip him to the Rockets in exchange for Patrick Beverley, Sam Dekker, Lou Williams, Montrezl Harrell, Darrun Hilliard, DeAndre Liggins, Kyle Wiltjer, a 2018 first-round pick and future cash considerations.
Wednesday must have been one of the strangest days you’ve ever witnessed. Early in the afternoon, the Trail Blazers traded Tim Quarterman to the Rockets for cash considerations. Then the Pistons traded Darrun Hilliard to the Rockets for cash considerations. Then the Mavericks traded DeAndre Liggins to the Rockets for cash considerations. Then the Hawks traded Ryan Kelly to the Rockets for cash considerations. And the Sixers traded Shawn Long to the Rockets for cash — and a 2018 second-round draft pick, because the spirit of Sam Hinkie will never die, and because nobody will ever out-process the Sixers.
Paul opted into the final year of his contract with the Clippers, a move that would have seemed strange on its own given that most of the league had presumed he would opt out. This allowed the Clippers to trade him to the Rockets — great news for the Clippers, since they got something in return for their departing superstar, and great news for the Rockets, since NBA teams can acquire players with salaries that would put them over the cap so long as the salaries they receive are less than or equal to 125 percent of the salaries they export.
But the players Houston was willing to give up in the deal — Patrick Beverley, Sam Dekker, and Lou Williams — had a combined salary of $14.3 million. Paul’s 2017–18 cap hit — after a clause that increases player salaries up to 15 percent if they get traded — is $24.6 million. To make the trade work, the Rockets had to ship off at least $20.5 million.
Finding assets to fit that equation was difficult. Including a player like Eric Gordon or Ryan Anderson in the deal would blow the negotiations to smithereens — beside the fact that it would throw off the basketball calculus of the trade, their respective $12.9 million and $19.6 million salaries would put the Clippers on the wrong end of the desired 125 percent balance and leave them on the hook for tens of millions of dollars in future years. Including end-of-the-bench players like Montrezl Harrell and Kyle Wiltjer (salaries of $1.5 million and $1.3 million) wouldn’t do enough, and the Rockets didn’t have enough of those guys to lump into the trade to even out the finances.
So the Rockets sought players who were (a) under contract for next season and (b) had nonguaranteed salaries, thus allowing the Clippers to take them on without seriously hampering their other personnel plans. These players were likely to be cut by their previous teams anyway —
To summarize: the Rockets bought a bunch of players so they could include enough salary in the trade to get Chris Paul. It was particularly inventive GMsmanship from Morey, who is far from the first GM to use cash to complete a deal or to treat players as throw-ins to make salary figures work but took both concepts to the extreme to engineer a move that could push his team closer to challenging the Warriors in the top-heavy NBA.
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Post by Admin on Jan 30, 2024 12:18:11 GMT -5
isn't there a rule about trading for a player and including him in another trade with other players? I thought there was a waiting period on that for some reason. There is a waiting period, not sure what it is.
So how did the Blazers flip Jrue to the C's on 10/1/23 after getting him from the Bucks on 9/27/23 - 4 days later?
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Post by Admin on Jan 30, 2024 12:25:53 GMT -5
OK ... I found this - as long as an acquired player is flipped alone it can be done immediately but if being combine there is a 60 day waiting period. Can an NBA player be traded right after being traded? If the acquiring team is over the cap upon executing the first trade, the player has an aggregation restriction for 60 days. In other words, the player can be re-traded immediately, but his salary cannot be combined with another player's salary to acquire a higher-salaried player for roughly two months.
I just don't understand how the Rockets/Morey were able to combine 2 contracts w/ other players for Chris Paul the same day they acquired them - anyone got the answer?
Was there a rule change post 2017 to prevent this from happening again?
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Post by Admin on Jan 30, 2024 13:03:56 GMT -5
ESPN's Bobby Marks breaks down Celtics' options at NBA trade deadline The NBA trade deadline is scheduled for Feb. 8. By Nick Goss
... One advantage the Celtics have over many of their other contending teams is that they still own most of their draft picks. The only first-rounder the C's don't own is their 2029 pick (owed to the Blazers from the Jrue Holiday trade). The Spurs also have the right to swap 2028 first-round picks with the C's (from the Derrick White trade). But aside from that, Boston has its full war chest of draft picks.
"That's what people forget about Boston," ESPN's Bobby Marks said on a new episode of the Celtics Talk Podcast. "They're not like some of these other teams. They're not like Milwaukee. They're not like Phoenix. Yes, their payroll is high, but ... they're still sitting on the draft equity."
It takes salary to make a deal, though, and if the Celtics are going to acquire someone whose salary is in the $9-15 million range, matching that amount of money could prove difficult. It's not as easy to do that as it was in previous years because of the new CBA. The Celtics have just two players whose salary for the 2023-24 season falls between $3 million and $17 million in Payton Pritchard and Al Horford.
"It's basically that $6.2 million trade exception (for Grant Williams), right? Let's just remove the draft equity out of there because that would come into play if a player becomes available here," Marks said. "But I think ownership has committed that they're willing to spend. They've always said, 'Hey, if we have a championship roster, we can go out and do it.' Because they made the trade last year where they saved money and then they went out and got Mike Muscala at the deadline where they added back money. So it's almost like rotating the money around here. They've got an open roster spot. They are top-heavy. You're not moving your top six, right? Your six guys are your core guys."
"I found it funny, and I try to stay off the rumor mill -- like, 'Oh yeah, Boston would like Kelly Olynyk.' I'm like, yeah, I'm sure they would like Kelly Olynyk in Boston. Yeah, you're trading like seven guys (to make the deal work). That's the reality of it.
"You have to look at it as, besides the exception, you can only take back within 110 percent of money coming in. That's hard. So if you're trading for a $10 million guy, you're trying to send out like $9 million and change. The old days of getting within $5-6 million are not there anymore."
"So I think you're looking at guys who fit into that $6.2 million TPE. I don't think New Orleans would do it, but Naji Marshall would be great, right? Kind of a big wing here. But he plays for them. I don't think you would trade a first-rounder (for Marshall) because he's on an expiring deal."
"John Konchar in Memphis -- guys like that who are on a controllable contract. Those are kind of your wing guys that you're going out and trying to do. Payton (Pritchard) signed this rookie extension here. We always say he's got a poison pill restriction, right? But Payton's on a good contract, and when you're high with salaries, you need those $7 million players or $8 million players just to balance out the rest of your roster here."
"Listen, they will be active like all 30 teams and as far as what you can fit into that $6.2 million."
The new CBA also limits what the Celtics can do in the buyout market.
"They'll be active in the buyout market," Marks said. "But with the (CBA) restrictions, they can only sign players whose salary was below $12.4 million from their pre-existing contract."
"Like, if Gordon Hayward became available, he's out of the mix. If Kyle Lowry became available, he's out of the mix. If Alec Burks became available, potentially. So you're limited here as far as what you can do."
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 31, 2024 9:41:02 GMT -5
So you can flip him one for one but not as part of a multi-player deal?
Then how'd the Rockets flip 2 contracts for Paul the same day they acquired them?
not sur eon those details, but perhaps it was a multi-team deal or something?
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 31, 2024 9:43:21 GMT -5
OK ... I found this - as long as an acquired player is flipped alone it can be done immediately but if being combine there is a 60 day waiting period. Can an NBA player be traded right after being traded? If the acquiring team is over the cap upon executing the first trade, the player has an aggregation restriction for 60 days. In other words, the player can be re-traded immediately, but his salary cannot be combined with another player's salary to acquire a higher-salaried player for roughly two months.
I just don't understand how the Rockets/Morey were able to combine 2 contracts w/ other players for Chris Paul the same day they acquired them - anyone got the answer?
Was there a rule change post 2017 to prevent this from happening again?
one thing is that as during the off-season I believe, which allowed Houston to bring in extra players.
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 31, 2024 9:55:58 GMT -5
so Boston CAN get Kelly O. back,but I only see two options
easiest is if he is bought out by Ainge at Utah.
then we can only sign him to the vet minimum (with no bird rights), as the TPE is only for trades.
the other option would be to trade players for his expiring deal (and his bird rights). as the articles above pointed out the new CBA requires Boston to send back 90% of his current salary now or close to $11M. So that means Horford ($10M) and another piece. I think most of us would say a big no to that deal.
Pritchard at $4M instead would require 4 other minimum contracts to make the deal happen. Utah would the have to cut FOUR players from their roster to make that deal. Not going to happen, IMO.
best to move on on to other fish with smaller contracts, I think
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Post by kdp59 on Jan 31, 2024 10:18:29 GMT -5
we can squeeze Otto Porter (tor) into that Grant TPE and send back one of the 3 seconds Boston has in next years draft. Porter is on an expiring deal, but Boston would retain his bird rights next season. of course Health is always a concern with Porter it seems. C. Okeke (orl) is another who fits into the TPE and is a "big wing" that Opie has spoken of wanting. I've always liked J. Smith from Indiana, but he has two years, even if he fits the TPE I think the cost would, be a first round pick for him. I might do something like this though:
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