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Post by Admin on Aug 5, 2021 20:15:01 GMT -5
Also noted on Spotrac that Thompson is listed as incoming at Hawks and no longer shown on the Kings incoming even though Wright is still listed as outgoing.
Drew may be right ... SAC may have put a hold on the TT trade since they signed both Holmes & Len.
If we used TPEs to acquire Dunn & Fernando then TT is still our asset and Hawks owe SAC for Wright unless they still want TT.
If TT is ours, why not offer him for Markkanen or just Fernando and pick/s? We s/b able to meet or exceed the Hornets offer since the only way they can get him is by using their cap space but then the Bulls could match (though they will only go so far). Whoever gets Lauri, it's best to do it as a S&T to make all parties agreeable.
The Celtics can do that as long as they'll offer Lauri at least $15-18MM/yr
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 20:19:00 GMT -5
well i don't get pleasant surprises often these day. James Brown Cool . I've been all over Jordan sense he bought the Hornets.. He's made a ton of poor decisions especially turning down 6 picks for Winslow. That was the turning point of my love affair with Ainge also.. Looks like Jordan learned from his mistakes the team is trending up now i believe.Unlike most here i don't hate James and i wasn't joking about buying the team. He's a little brighter than Jordan on how to construct a team. No one else has ever won a title in three different cities. I think he wants LA instead of Boston doubtful he uproots his family and friends there and goes East. After setting back and watch the whole world turned upside down the past few years. I never say never anymore..
No arguments there ... in fact:
Hornets Considering Offer Sheet For Lauri Markkanen by Luke Adams
The Hornets, one of the NBA’s only teams that still has cap space available, have “strong” interest in a potential offer sheet for Bulls restricted free agent forward Lauri Markkanen, reports Shams Charania of The Athletic (Twitter link).
By my unofficial count, Charlotte currently has about $14MM in projected cap room and could increase that number slightly by waiving one or more of the non-guaranteed contracts on the team’s books (Cody Martin, Caleb Martin, and Jalen McDaniels). That would likely be enough space to make a competitive bid for Markkanen and put pressure on the Bulls, who have the ability to match any offer sheet he signs.
Chicago will be hard-capped as a result of the club’s sign-and-trade deals for Lonzo Ball and DeMar DeRozan. Accommodating a significant salary for Markkanen would potentially push the club into the tax and close to that hard cap. ESPN’s Bobby Marks (Twitter link) said following the DeRozan agreement on Tuesday that the Bulls’ team salary was about $19.5MM below the tax line and $26MM below the hard cap, with six open roster spots.
The seventh overall pick in the 2017 draft, Markkanen showed a ton of promise during his first two NBA seasons, posting a career-high 18.7 PPG and 9.0 RPG on .430/.361/.872 shooting in 52 games (32.3 MPG) in 2018/19. However, his development trajectory has leveled off since then, as he has battled a series of injuries and given the Bulls up-and-down production.
Still, the Finnish forward is only 24 years old and is a legitimate floor-spacing big man, having knocked down 40.2% of his three-point attempts this past season. Charlotte has plenty of talent in its backcourt (LaMelo Ball, Terry Rozier, James Bouknight) and on the wing (Gordon Hayward, Miles Bridges, P.J. Washington) and may view Markkanen as a nice fit up front.
If the Hornets is worried about a potential offer sheet being matched and the Bulls don’t want to risk losing Markkanen for nothing, the two sides could engage in sign-and-trade talks to ensure the seven-footer ends up in Charlotte and Chicago gets a minor asset or two in return for agreeing to let him walk. However, if Markkanen officially signs an offer sheet with the Hornets, a sign-and-trade would no longer be possible.
A restricted free agent can sign an offer sheet during the moratorium period, but the two-day matching clock doesn’t begin until the moratorium ends, so there’s no rush for Charlotte to get Markkanen to sign on the dotted line today.
For what it’s worth, a report earlier this week stated that the Spurs had interest in Markkanen in the DeRozan sign-and-trade, but weren’t comfortable meeting his asking price.
Comment: So why don't we offer a pick/s along with a prospect like GWill and Edwards or even Fernando for a S&T of Markkanen which gets the Bulls back a nice TPE as well?
I havn't kept up with Markkanen but if the Bulls are serious which they seem to be they need him back. The Nets also got a 11.5 mil trade exemption from the Dinwiddie trade i thought they may try and snag him. I have no clue what he's asking for. I'll have to disagree i yhink they would laugh . We can offer but..... Giving any team Gwill Edwards and Fatso from Maryland would be akin to giving them the flu.... I should wish it would open up two roster spaces besides giving us a PF.. That would rival Christmas.....
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Post by elvissurfs on Aug 5, 2021 21:24:19 GMT -5
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Post by Admin on Aug 5, 2021 22:06:48 GMT -5
No arguments there ... in fact:
Hornets Considering Offer Sheet For Lauri Markkanen by Luke Adams
The Hornets, one of the NBA’s only teams that still has cap space available, have “strong” interest in a potential offer sheet for Bulls restricted free agent forward Lauri Markkanen, reports Shams Charania of The Athletic (Twitter link).
By my unofficial count, Charlotte currently has about $14MM in projected cap room and could increase that number slightly by waiving one or more of the non-guaranteed contracts on the team’s books (Cody Martin, Caleb Martin, and Jalen McDaniels). That would likely be enough space to make a competitive bid for Markkanen and put pressure on the Bulls, who have the ability to match any offer sheet he signs.
Chicago will be hard-capped as a result of the club’s sign-and-trade deals for Lonzo Ball and DeMar DeRozan. Accommodating a significant salary for Markkanen would potentially push the club into the tax and close to that hard cap. ESPN’s Bobby Marks (Twitter link) said following the DeRozan agreement on Tuesday that the Bulls’ team salary was about $19.5MM below the tax line and $26MM below the hard cap, with six open roster spots.
The seventh overall pick in the 2017 draft, Markkanen showed a ton of promise during his first two NBA seasons, posting a career-high 18.7 PPG and 9.0 RPG on .430/.361/.872 shooting in 52 games (32.3 MPG) in 2018/19. However, his development trajectory has leveled off since then, as he has battled a series of injuries and given the Bulls up-and-down production.
Still, the Finnish forward is only 24 years old and is a legitimate floor-spacing big man, having knocked down 40.2% of his three-point attempts this past season. Charlotte has plenty of talent in its backcourt (LaMelo Ball, Terry Rozier, James Bouknight) and on the wing (Gordon Hayward, Miles Bridges, P.J. Washington) and may view Markkanen as a nice fit up front.
If the Hornets is worried about a potential offer sheet being matched and the Bulls don’t want to risk losing Markkanen for nothing, the two sides could engage in sign-and-trade talks to ensure the seven-footer ends up in Charlotte and Chicago gets a minor asset or two in return for agreeing to let him walk. However, if Markkanen officially signs an offer sheet with the Hornets, a sign-and-trade would no longer be possible.
A restricted free agent can sign an offer sheet during the moratorium period, but the two-day matching clock doesn’t begin until the moratorium ends, so there’s no rush for Charlotte to get Markkanen to sign on the dotted line today.
For what it’s worth, a report earlier this week stated that the Spurs had interest in Markkanen in the DeRozan sign-and-trade, but weren’t comfortable meeting his asking price.
Comment: So why don't we offer a pick/s along with a prospect like GWill and Edwards or even Fernando for a S&T of Markkanen which gets the Bulls back a nice TPE as well?
I havn't kept up with Markkanen but if the Bulls are serious which they seem to be they need him back. The Nets also got a 11.5 mil trade exemption from the Dinwiddie trade i thought they may try and snag him. I have no clue what he's asking for. I'll have to disagree i think they would laugh . We can offer but..... Giving any team Gwill Edwards and Fatso from Maryland would be akin to giving them the flu.... I should wish it would open up two roster spaces besides giving us a PF.. That would rival Christmas.....
Pretty fast for a "fat guy."
Bulls have no cap space to take back matching contracts ... they just want something for working out a S&T like pick/s and/or a cheap prospect.
And the Hornets?
The Hornets are also reportedly pondering an offer sheet to Bulls free agent Lauri Markkanen — with approximately $14MM in cap room remaining, they wouldn’t be able to sign both players (talking with Oubre also) unless one accepted a very team-friendly rate.
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 22:33:07 GMT -5
ha I haven't seen him play sense he was in Maryland he alwqays looked fat to me.
I see he's toned up.
Here is what the Bulls want and the team they are working with....
Chicago Bulls receive: Taurean Prince, 2023 first-round pick (top-10 protected)
Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade)
Here is what the twoves want.
Chicago Bulls receive: Jarrett Culver, Juancho Hernangomez
Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade)
The TBulls want him badley its reported...
I'm headed for bed i'll leave u with another note.....
Today an man from Oragon tested 0.778 on his soberity test. Acording to the Smoking Gun, an Oregon woman who scored a 0.72 had held the previous record since 2007.
The average lethal % for a human is 0.350
Been to Oragon ever? I have. This is just the norm......
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Post by Admin on Aug 5, 2021 23:57:56 GMT -5
ha I haven't seen him play sense he was in Maryland he alwqays looked fat to me. I see he's toned up. Here is what the Bulls want and the team they are working with.... Chicago Bulls receive: Taurean Prince, 2023 first-round pick (top-10 protected) Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade) Here is what the twoves want. Chicago Bulls receive: Jarrett Culver, Juancho Hernangomez Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade) The TBulls want him badley its reported... I'm headed for bed i'll leave u with another note..... Today an man from Oragon tested 0.778 on his soberity test. Acording to the Smoking Gun, an Oregon woman who scored a 0.72 had held the previous record since 2007. The average lethal % for a human is 0.350 Been to Oragon ever? I have. This is just the norm......
You didn't provide how a date indicating how recent or old those trade pieces suggested were/are.
I have no problem including a future 1st if getting Lauri signed for 3 yrs at $12-13MM ...
I see they are still light at the center position losing Theis and having just Vucevic and Toney Bradley (?) there.
So I'd offer them Thompson, GWill & Edwards ($14MM) and a 1st round pick in 2023 or 2024 top 10 protected if they prefer contracts over a cap saving TPE.
If Thompson won't do we could flip Richardson with GWill or just Smart if it came to that. Addition by subtraction ...
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Post by Admin on Aug 6, 2021 0:35:46 GMT -5
So much for the Hornets:
Hornets, Kelly Oubre Agree To Two-Year Deal by Luke Adams
The Hornets and free agent wing Kelly Oubre are in agreement on a two-year deal that will be worth $26MM+, sources tell Shams Charania of The Athletic (Twitter link).
David Aldridge of The Athletic reported earlier on Thursday that the Hornets and Oubre had engaged in discussions, while Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports was first to report that the two sides were finalizing a multiyear deal expected to exceed $12MM per year.
Charlotte, one of the only NBA teams that still had the cap room necessary to make an offer worth more than the full mid-level exception ($9.5MM), had also reportedly been mulling an offer sheet for Lauri Markkanen. However, the Hornets’ agreement with Oubre will eat up most – if not all – of their remaining cap room, presumably taking an aggressive bid for the Bulls‘ restricted free agent forward off the table.
Per HoopsRumors.com
So it's us or TWolves ...
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 6, 2021 10:05:03 GMT -5
ha I haven't seen him play sense he was in Maryland he alwqays looked fat to me. I see he's toned up. Here is what the Bulls want and the team they are working with.... Chicago Bulls receive: Taurean Prince, 2023 first-round pick (top-10 protected) Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade) Here is what the twoves want. Chicago Bulls receive: Jarrett Culver, Juancho Hernangomez Minnesota Timberwolves receive: Lauri Markkanen (via sign-and-trade) The TBulls want him badley its reported... I'm headed for bed i'll leave u with another note..... Today an man from Oragon tested 0.778 on his soberity test. Acording to the Smoking Gun, an Oregon woman who scored a 0.72 had held the previous record since 2007. The average lethal % for a human is 0.350 Been to Oragon ever? I have. This is just the norm......
You didn't provide how a date indicating how recent or old those trade pieces suggested were/are.
I have no problem including a future 1st if getting Lauri signed for 3 yrs at $12-13MM ...
I see they are still light at the center position losing Theis and having just Vucevic and Toney Bradley (?) there.
So I'd offer them Thompson, GWill & Edwards ($14MM) and a 1st round pick in 2023 or 2024 top 10 protected if they prefer contracts over a cap saving TPE.
If Thompson won't do we could flip Richardson with GWill or just Smart if it came to that. Addition by subtraction ...
August the 4th Boss. I think bleacher report was the origional source. heavy.com/sports/chicago-bulls/bulls-trade-proposal-swaps-markkanen-for-2-former-first-round-picks/Your second proposal the Bulls might take..
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 11:52:59 GMT -5
Why were picking those three so difficult?
Hell, we picked Brown here at this forum and it was down to Smart or Randle in that draft (you couldn't lose either way but some say Randle was/is the better pick) ... I'll give him credit on Tatum cause he passed on Fultz and held his breath that the Lakers wouldn't opt for Tatum over Russell and got who he wanted and that extra pick ... ballsy for sure and not many here saw that coming.
But, bottom line he made 1-3 tough calls ... anyone in the room could have picked Brown & Smart here.
Well I looked in 1 thread about the 2016 draft, here is your quote “If we intend to move the pick after the draft he had better take Dunn. If we are keeping the pick it s/b Murray but sources seem to think it's Bender, Dunn or Brown and I think DA is hot for that Winslow forward he missed out on last year. Here's hoping if it is Brown, he and Stevens are sure they can correct Brown's shooting mechanics and help him find the ceiling everyone says exists.“ Not that what you said was dumb, but it wasnt cut and dry Brown in the slightest. Brown id day was the back of the pack in that grouping. You have to give him credit on Tatum and brown and that is literally the only Hope the franchise has What I say?
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 11:57:29 GMT -5
Also noted on Spotrac that Thompson is listed as incoming at Hawks and no longer shown on the Kings incoming even though Wright is still listed as outgoing. Drew may be right ... SAC may have put a hold on the TT trade since they signed both Holmes & Len. If we used TPEs to acquire Dunn & Fernando then TT is still our asset and Hawks owe SAC for Wright unless they still want TT. If TT is ours, why not offer him for Markkanen or just Fernando and pick/s? We s/b able to meet or exceed the Hornets offer since the only way they can get him is by using their cap space but then the Bulls could match (though they will only go so far). Whoever gets Lauri, it's best to do it as a S&T to make all parties agreeable. The Celtics can do that as long as they'll offer Lauri at least $15-18MM/yr Yup, we have no choice but to S+T for him because we are over the cap. But like you were saying in another thread, this is where TT's contract really helps. See that, having contracts (not cap room) creates options. Its just much much easier to do it this way. You would need $18M in cap room to sign him outright. He'll get S+T'd. Hopefully to us.
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Post by solly on Aug 6, 2021 11:59:40 GMT -5
Well I looked in 1 thread about the 2016 draft, here is your quote “If we intend to move the pick after the draft he had better take Dunn. If we are keeping the pick it s/b Murray but sources seem to think it's Bender, Dunn or Brown and I think DA is hot for that Winslow forward he missed out on last year. Here's hoping if it is Brown, he and Stevens are sure they can correct Brown's shooting mechanics and help him find the ceiling everyone says exists.“ Not that what you said was dumb, but it wasnt cut and dry Brown in the slightest. Brown id day was the back of the pack in that grouping. You have to give him credit on Tatum and brown and that is literally the only Hope the franchise has What I say? Honestly havent looked that far, I was on my phone and just saw the first few posts of one thread with a 2016 title. My point wasnt to say who said something wrong though. Just that I think back in 2016, there were a few guys that fans wouldve been happy with. I dont think it was clear cut Jaylen, like Lebron in 03 for example. If they went with Dunn or Murray, etc I dont think they wouldve gotten crushed
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Post by petey62 on Aug 6, 2021 12:00:13 GMT -5
If Ainge's drafting or trading was so good.. Why are we having this conversation? Whats the conversation? Why arent the Celtics a contender 4 years into the best players careers? Cause nobody wins that way. Unless you get the best FAs to join, building through the draft is almost impossible and it takes Years Like I said yesterday. Your guy Presti. Unbelievable string of drafts in the late 2000s. 0 championships...His fault? Curry was drafted in 09, didnt win til 2015. solly, the Celtics, 4 years into their best players careers, have gone to the ECF 3 times. I'm sorry but your argument of "building through the draft taking years" is invalid here when they've gone to the ECF so many times. You can't really argue, after all that, we need to expect a 3 year build, NOW? That may very well be true but it never should have gotten to that. The problem is that team management f*#ked everything up. Competent Celtics management would have built on the success over the past 4 years with the aim of getting us over the hump as close as we were. But instead, our management totally screwed up everything. For example, how do you, for two consecutive years, get absolutely NOTHING from two quality players who have decided to leave. To get NOTHING from a S&T for Hayward and then nothing from a S&T for Fournier (who was what we got from the Hayward S&T), those have got to be the most incompetent results by Celtic management decisions. If the Celtics had solid, quality, veteran, championship-experienced depth instead of chasing the Kyries and Haywards and Kembas of the world, maybe we'd have a championship by now. Because we got to 3 ECFs in in 4 years WITHOUT their major contributions. In my opinion, a guy like Mook Morris had more to do with our success in the playoffs than any of the 3 superstars. More than anything, that was my issue with team management and the primary reason we never got over the hump.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 12:47:38 GMT -5
Honestly havent looked that far, I was on my phone and just saw the first few posts of one thread with a 2016 title. My point wasnt to say who said something wrong though. Just that I think back in 2016, there were a few guys that fans wouldve been happy with. I dont think it was clear cut Jaylen, like Lebron in 03 for example. If they went with Dunn or Murray, etc I dont think they wouldve gotten crushed Well, Im not sure where I was at the beginning of the discussions, but I assure you, my friend, by the end....I was 100% jaylen or bust. I watched the draft from a friends house, and I was screaming "Jaylen Brown, Jaylen Brown" then when they selected Brown, I was over the moon. Was literally screaming and running laps around my buddys house. His dog bit me. Not like an angry, I want to hurt you bite. Just more of a confused "are we playing, can i get in on this" bite. But all of my friends wanted Dunn, because Im a providence boy with season tix to PC. So obvs all my friends wanted the guy from Prov who played at PC. I love Dunn because of his PC tenure, but I knew Jaylen was the better prospect. My friends were seeing it w bias, hence really wanting Dunn. The good news is we now have both (at least kind of, for now, but kind of in limbo).
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 12:50:41 GMT -5
Whats the conversation? Why arent the Celtics a contender 4 years into the best players careers? Cause nobody wins that way. Unless you get the best FAs to join, building through the draft is almost impossible and it takes Years Like I said yesterday. Your guy Presti. Unbelievable string of drafts in the late 2000s. 0 championships...His fault? Curry was drafted in 09, didnt win til 2015. solly, the Celtics, 4 years into their best players careers, have gone to the ECF 3 times. I'm sorry but your argument of "building through the draft taking years" is invalid here when they've gone to the ECF so many times. You can't really argue, after all that, we need to expect a 3 year build, NOW? That may very well be true but it never should have gotten to that. The problem is that team management f*#ked everything up. Competent Celtics management would have built on the success over the past 4 years with the aim of getting us over the hump as close as we were. But instead, our management totally screwed up everything. For example, how do you, for two consecutive years, get absolutely NOTHING from two quality players who have decided to leave. To get NOTHING from a S&T for Hayward and then nothing from a S&T for Fournier (who was what we got from the Hayward S&T), those have got to be the most incompetent results by Celtic management decisions. If the Celtics had solid, quality, veteran, championship-experienced depth instead of chasing the Kyries and Haywards and Kembas of the world, maybe we'd have a championship by now. Because we got to 3 ECFs in in 4 years WITHOUT their major contributions. In my opinion, a guy like Mook Morris had more to do with our success in the playoffs than any of the 3 superstars. More than anything, that was my issue with team management and the primary reason we never got over the hump. Another thing, worth pointing out, is back when we had a ton of picks and a ton of young players, we kept passing on opportunities to bring in legit stars because "we didnt want to use all our tradeable assets on a player w less than 3 years on their deal", and I get that. But we just kept holding out for a better trade and holding out for a better trade....And so many picks that should have been packaged together to get a guy to put us over the top wound up going to players like Yabu. You know Danny, had to win every trade. Couldnt just make a deal, even if you were giving up slightly more value than you were getting back - to get the piece to put us over the hump.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 12:52:37 GMT -5
Except, for some strange reason, Frank Kaminsky. Willing to give up 3 firsts for Kahwi? "No, he only has 1.5 yrs left on his deal. We arent trading for him." But all of a sudden he's willing to give up all that + more to move up like 6 spots and get Frank Kaminsky. Thank goodness, they (hornets?) rejected that deal.
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Post by petey62 on Aug 6, 2021 12:53:45 GMT -5
solly, the Celtics, 4 years into their best players careers, have gone to the ECF 3 times. I'm sorry but your argument of "building through the draft taking years" is invalid here when they've gone to the ECF so many times. You can't really argue, after all that, we need to expect a 3 year build, NOW? That may very well be true but it never should have gotten to that. The problem is that team management f*#ked everything up. Competent Celtics management would have built on the success over the past 4 years with the aim of getting us over the hump as close as we were. But instead, our management totally screwed up everything. For example, how do you, for two consecutive years, get absolutely NOTHING from two quality players who have decided to leave. To get NOTHING from a S&T for Hayward and then nothing from a S&T for Fournier (who was what we got from the Hayward S&T), those have got to be the most incompetent results by Celtic management decisions. If the Celtics had solid, quality, veteran, championship-experienced depth instead of chasing the Kyries and Haywards and Kembas of the world, maybe we'd have a championship by now. Because we got to 3 ECFs in in 4 years WITHOUT their major contributions. In my opinion, a guy like Mook Morris had more to do with our success in the playoffs than any of the 3 superstars. More than anything, that was my issue with team management and the primary reason we never got over the hump. Another thing, worth pointing out, is back when we had a ton of picks and a ton of young players, we kept passing on opportunities to bring in legit stars because "we didnt want to use all our tradeable assets on a player w less than 3 years on their deal", and I get that. But we just kept holding out for a better trade and holding out for a better trade....And so many picks that should have been packaged together to get a guy to put us over the top wound up going to players like Yabu. You know Danny, had to win every trade. Couldnt just make a deal, even if you were giving up slightly more value than you were getting back - to get the piece to put us over the hump. You are so right. What's the use in stockpiling all of these draft picks if all you're going to do is actually use them to draft players? That makes no sense. DA had absolutely no plan at all.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 12:58:06 GMT -5
Saying I will give you Jae Crowder and an aging bench player for PG and holding that line was absurd. Everyone was like the Pacers HAVE to trade him to the Celtics, so why do we have to up our offer from Jae and a vet bench player. Then OKC stepped in with Oladipo and Sabonis. Now, those 2 players have grown a ton since then, and it ended up being a good trade for the Pacers (at least for a little while, until Deepo got hurt). But at the time, the trade value of Oladipo and Sabonis wasnt super high. Again, both players really came into their own after the trade. But for a while the Pacers GM was laughed at (but he def got the last laugh)....I remember him saying, everyone thought it was all but done PG to the Celts, but we just werent interested in Jae Crowder.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 12:59:47 GMT -5
Lunacy. Had we thrown in one of our 10 picks in the next 3 years, could have topped the OKC offer easy. Thats just one that comes to mind. Of us hoarding and holding out for better instead of pulling the trigger. I guess you could put the Hayward fiasco in this bucket too.
Danny rejecting a good deal, hoping a better deal will come along (that never did).
"Greedy pigs get slaughtered"
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 13:03:08 GMT -5
Another thing, worth pointing out, is back when we had a ton of picks and a ton of young players, we kept passing on opportunities to bring in legit stars because "we didnt want to use all our tradeable assets on a player w less than 3 years on their deal", and I get that. But we just kept holding out for a better trade and holding out for a better trade....And so many picks that should have been packaged together to get a guy to put us over the top wound up going to players like Yabu. You know Danny, had to win every trade. Couldnt just make a deal, even if you were giving up slightly more value than you were getting back - to get the piece to put us over the hump. You are so right. What's the use in stockpiling all of these draft picks if all you're going to do is actually use them to draft players? That makes no sense. DA had absolutely no plan at all. Yeah, we were at the point, because we had so many (mediocre) bodies that we were having to reach for second rounders in the first round, just cuz that (mediocre) body could be stashed. How many picks did we make where the #1 criteria towards who we selected was: "is he stashable?" Absurd.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 13:06:14 GMT -5
"Absolutely not! We are not giving up Nader and Zizic AND two firsts for Kahwi! You have to be joking. Look the deal is Jae Crowder and Amir Johnson for Kahwi or nothing. Take it or leave it."
(Narrator voice): And Kahwi to the Celtics, never happened
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 6, 2021 13:08:37 GMT -5
Danny, too often, played 10-7 off-suit as if it was aces. "Overplayed his hand"
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Post by solly on Aug 6, 2021 13:10:35 GMT -5
Whats the conversation? Why arent the Celtics a contender 4 years into the best players careers? Cause nobody wins that way. Unless you get the best FAs to join, building through the draft is almost impossible and it takes Years Like I said yesterday. Your guy Presti. Unbelievable string of drafts in the late 2000s. 0 championships...His fault? Curry was drafted in 09, didnt win til 2015. solly, the Celtics, 4 years into their best players careers, have gone to the ECF 3 times. I'm sorry but your argument of "building through the draft taking years" is invalid here when they've gone to the ECF so many times. You can't really argue, after all that, we need to expect a 3 year build, NOW? That may very well be true but it never should have gotten to that. The problem is that team management f*#ked everything up. Competent Celtics management would have built on the success over the past 4 years with the aim of getting us over the hump as close as we were. But instead, our management totally screwed up everything. For example, how do you, for two consecutive years, get absolutely NOTHING from two quality players who have decided to leave. To get NOTHING from a S&T for Hayward and then nothing from a S&T for Fournier (who was what we got from the Hayward S&T), those have got to be the most incompetent results by Celtic management decisions. If the Celtics had solid, quality, veteran, championship-experienced depth instead of chasing the Kyries and Haywards and Kembas of the world, maybe we'd have a championship by now. Because we got to 3 ECFs in in 4 years WITHOUT their major contributions. In my opinion, a guy like Mook Morris had more to do with our success in the playoffs than any of the 3 superstars. More than anything, that was my issue with team management and the primary reason we never got over the hump. Im not arguing over certain management screw ups. But just because you went to an ECF doesnt mean youre ready to win a championship or really that youre close. This teams "core" of Jaylen/Tatum have been to 2. Obviously 18, when their 2 best players got hurt and last year in a bubble when they didnt need to face anybody and still lost. To me, they ran into a couple years and thats great. Doesnt mean theyre anywhere close to ready. Tatum and Brown are 23/24 years old. Theyre still 4 years away from their primes. Trying to garner superstars is the way you play it, and they got unlucky and failed. It was worth a try. MIL was built mostly through the draft for example or at least organically. Giannis was drafted in 13, Middleton in 12. Thats 8-10 years since entering the league. And realistically, they were fortunate with injuries as well. Its just incredibly hard to do it successfully. We can nitpick all we want, but the tough realization is its nearly impossible to achieve
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Post by petey62 on Aug 6, 2021 13:56:45 GMT -5
solly, the Celtics, 4 years into their best players careers, have gone to the ECF 3 times. I'm sorry but your argument of "building through the draft taking years" is invalid here when they've gone to the ECF so many times. You can't really argue, after all that, we need to expect a 3 year build, NOW? That may very well be true but it never should have gotten to that. The problem is that team management f*#ked everything up. Competent Celtics management would have built on the success over the past 4 years with the aim of getting us over the hump as close as we were. But instead, our management totally screwed up everything. For example, how do you, for two consecutive years, get absolutely NOTHING from two quality players who have decided to leave. To get NOTHING from a S&T for Hayward and then nothing from a S&T for Fournier (who was what we got from the Hayward S&T), those have got to be the most incompetent results by Celtic management decisions. If the Celtics had solid, quality, veteran, championship-experienced depth instead of chasing the Kyries and Haywards and Kembas of the world, maybe we'd have a championship by now. Because we got to 3 ECFs in in 4 years WITHOUT their major contributions. In my opinion, a guy like Mook Morris had more to do with our success in the playoffs than any of the 3 superstars. More than anything, that was my issue with team management and the primary reason we never got over the hump. Im not arguing over certain management screw ups. But just because you went to an ECF doesnt mean youre ready to win a championship or really that youre close. This teams "core" of Jaylen/Tatum have been to 2. Obviously 18, when their 2 best players got hurt and last year in a bubble when they didnt need to face anybody and still lost. To me, they ran into a couple years and thats great. Doesnt mean theyre anywhere close to ready. Tatum and Brown are 23/24 years old. Theyre still 4 years away from their primes. Trying to garner superstars is the way you play it, and they got unlucky and failed. It was worth a try. MIL was built mostly through the draft for example or at least organically. Giannis was drafted in 13, Middleton in 12. Thats 8-10 years since entering the league. And realistically, they were fortunate with injuries as well. Its just incredibly hard to do it successfully. We can nitpick all we want, but the tough realization is its nearly impossible to achieve solly, you can't dismiss the effect of Celtic management screw ups when analyzing the progress/lack of progress of the Celtics. You can't just ignore that and resort to the basic claim that it's nearly impossible to build a contender "through the draft". You're stating the obvious. You're right that you cannot build a championship team ALONE by waiting to draft 3 to 4 elite players over several years and then surrounding them with other high-quality role players. Of course challenging but that isn't what many Celtics fans believe has been going on. The Celtics have been absolutely, positively set up perfectly with a treasure trove of draft picks and good players, so this should not have been the customary 9 year championship build. And the main fault lies on Celtics management, primarily DA. And, yes, when your TEAM makes 3 ECFs in 4 years, that does mean you're close.
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Post by petey62 on Aug 6, 2021 13:59:34 GMT -5
DAYUM, now we're in talks with Dennis Schroder....
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Post by hedleylamarr on Aug 6, 2021 14:01:25 GMT -5
Anyone excited about Dennis Schroeder?
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