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Post by kyceltic on Aug 5, 2021 10:23:31 GMT -5
Not sure I understand the distain for Smart by some here myself. two time all defense first team in the NBA. list of Celtic players who made the team twice or more? Garnett- 3 times as a celtic R. Rondo K. McHale- 3 times P. Silas Havlicek- 3 times 1968 was the first year for all-defensive teams so Russell only made one team his final year. Silas and Rondo are the only ones from that list not in the hall of fame. now i am NOT saying Smart is a HOF player...LOL. but he's also not an average NBA role player either...please! KyCeltic has been poisoning the Marcus Smart well for years for reasons known only to God.
That's his raison d'etre, Ky's singular contribution to this forum.
Others will pick up on this line from time to time and run with it.
Some posters really get off on trolling and mercurial, emotional, tough as nails Smart seems to be an easy target.
Maybe its that simple.
To the pudster, Marcus Smart is a natural born 6th man and team leader, epitomizing rugged Celtic style physical basketball of years gone by. (A pretty boy he is not.) When the game is decided, you want Smart to be on the floor.
MS should be resigned and elevated to team captain status.... but he needs to be challenged by the new HC every day to fill that role. Otherwise, he needs to be traded to a team who can appreciate what Marcus brings to the table.
If Smart is traded, I am likely to go with him and I've been a Celtic fan since the glory days of Cousy and Russell.
Pud Much like you were on Rondo, who was at least 3 times the player Smart will ever be!
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Post by Cabutan on Aug 5, 2021 10:36:26 GMT -5
Smart is hecka fun to watch, and also a much better shooter than he is given credit for... everyone loves him when he gives us a chance and when he is absent and we cant win for shit. He misses a few shots and then the hate begins.. Gotta appreciate him for what he does, he gets dirty and works his butt off. Yea yea he misses shots just like any of our other celtics including tatum. But without smart, we would have been atrocious....on a side note, watched tatum yesterday and I am really really fkn worried. I dont think the guy will get to be a better 3 point shooter. Is pretty awful. And he just settles for those. Quite concerning
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 5, 2021 10:45:32 GMT -5
Lol, 'golf with your friends,' the Croc avatar...the three stooges... Solly and i are golfing next week.. He says he's good.. We'll see. Not sure what's the most deadly for me. Comsuming Sodium Cyanide or being optomistic. I'll try the latter. I think this kid Madar is going to stick i like him better than i did Rozier when he ist came. If Rwill stays healthy and one of Nesmith or Lansford steps up which i give a better than a 50% chance. We could do some damage.. What we can't get back is all those draft picks Ainge missed on.. The problem is. There is a plan despite the large gray area that has consumed most posters. I'm just hoping we stand pat and develope some young talent.. We are going to need some cheap youngins to balance out the cap anyway... On Mader.. It was mentioned he has to be bought out.. True but.... His team agreed to let him play in the summer league.. They are simply waiting on half a mil pay out and he's ours next year........ No one seems very excited by Mader which leaves me to believe that he will stick. If he does we sholuld start Richardson or NeSmith and Mader and move Smart for a PF who is over 6'9'' at the mininum.. We can't extend Smart and Rwill both and stay under the cap. Spend the year in developement. This won't happen i know the gray plan will consume us like a hungry Honey Badger... I'm excited about Madar!
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Post by kdp59 on Aug 5, 2021 10:58:24 GMT -5
Much like Paul Silas was a role player i suppose. best to go look at the two times all defense first teams in the NBA each year and come up with how many were NBA role players. Smart will get and SHOULD get in the $20M per year range, here or somewhere else. and some Celtics fans wanted to pay Fournier that type of dollars! what the hell games do you guys watch? Just because he will get that on the market doesnt mean he isnt a role player. You arent building your team around Marcus Smart. Since 2017...Here are guys that made the All Defensive list that Id categorize as role players (or less). We could go further back and id list a bunch. Matisse Thybulle Marcus Smart twice Eric Bledsoe twice Pat Beverley twice Brook Lopez Covington Dejounte Murray Andre Roberson Danny Green Tony Allen you are missing one key parrt of what I wrote NBA all defense FIRST team TWO years or more!! now try again to help you out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Teamwell, it won't actually HELP you with finding those role players..but there ya go
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 11:01:08 GMT -5
Just because he will get that on the market doesnt mean he isnt a role player. You arent building your team around Marcus Smart. Since 2017...Here are guys that made the All Defensive list that Id categorize as role players (or less). We could go further back and id list a bunch. Matisse Thybulle Marcus Smart twice Eric Bledsoe twice Pat Beverley twice Brook Lopez Covington Dejounte Murray Andre Roberson Danny Green Tony Allen you are missing one key parrt of what I wrote NBA all defense FIRST team TWO years or more!! now try again to help you out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_All-Defensive_Teamwell, it won't actually HELP you with finding those role players..but there ya go So what you are saying is being a great defender means you arent a role player? What do you consider Bruce Bowen or Tony Allen?
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Post by Cabutan on Aug 5, 2021 11:06:30 GMT -5
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Post by Cabutan on Aug 5, 2021 11:07:41 GMT -5
I love this. We get to see the rook and what he can or he cant do. Love it.
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Post by kdp59 on Aug 5, 2021 11:09:52 GMT -5
Not bein ga great defender, but an NBA first team All defensive player makes them at worst an ELITE NBA player.
which is something above average role player to me yes.
to help you
going back to 2000
Bruce Bowen
Tony Allen
were also two times all first team defense in the NBA. Both could fall into the category or good NBA role players . I hapen to feel Smart is better than both.
and every other player on that last in the last 20 years ( TWO TIME NBA FIRST TEAM DEFENSE) were all-stars or hall of fame type players.
People seem to think the guys that make those teams are garbage, they are elite NBA players (with only a few exceptions).
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 5, 2021 11:26:07 GMT -5
To be clear - I dont want to trade Smart, and fully agree that we seem to lose a lot of games when he isnt around. Hes an underrated PG. If you look at some stats, like Jaylen Browns fg% when Marcus is on the court vs when he isnt - you'll see that despite the misses (which are frustrating), Smart is actually an underrated facilitator. Im not exactly sure how, but the sample size is quite large and quite convincing.
The only way I would have traded him is because first and foremost you win in the NBA by scoring, and we dont have enough scoring. But we also dont have enough playmaking, so moving smart for pts kind of opens a hole to plug another.
At this pt, I dont think there is a player available that would be worth moving Smart. Maybe a S+T w the clippers for Kahwi? Then you'd punt this year adn try to find a PG in the offseason to play w Kawhi, Tatum, and Brown after this upcoming year. But I dont think Kahwi has any intention of leaving LA.
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 11:37:55 GMT -5
Not bein ga great defender, but an NBA first team All defensive player makes them at worst an ELITE NBA player. which is something above average role player to me yes. to help you going back to 2000 Bruce Bowen Tony Allen were also two times all first team defense in the NBA. Both could fall into the category or good NBA role players . I hapen to feel Smart is better than both. and every other player on that last in the last 20 years ( TWO TIME NBA FIRST TEAM DEFENSE) were all-stars or hall of fame type players. People seem to think the guys that make those teams are garbage, they are elite NBA players (with only a few exceptions). I haven’t said he’s garbage…he’s a role player, and a good one. He’s not an elite NBA player in any sense of the word. He’s in the same category as Bowen and Allen, which are the names I gave you. They are role players and are the exceptions
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Post by puddin on Aug 5, 2021 11:54:19 GMT -5
KyCeltic has been poisoning the Marcus Smart well for years for reasons known only to God.
That's his raison d'etre, Ky's singular contribution to this forum.
Others will pick up on this line from time to time and run with it.
Some posters really get off on trolling and mercurial, emotional, tough as nails Smart seems to be an easy target.
Maybe its that simple.
To the pudster, Marcus Smart is a natural born 6th man and team leader, epitomizing rugged Celtic style physical basketball of years gone by. (A pretty boy he is not.) When the game is decided, you want Smart to be on the floor.
MS should be resigned and elevated to team captain status.... but he needs to be challenged by the new HC every day to fill that role. Otherwise, he needs to be traded to a team who can appreciate what Marcus brings to the table.
If Smart is traded, I am likely to go with him and I've been a Celtic fan since the glory days of Cousy and Russell.
Pud Much like you were on Rondo, who was at least 3 times the player Smart will ever be! That's been your beef with Smart all along.
When the Cs drafted Smart, that signaled the merciful end of the "CapTripleDub" era.
I suspect that there will be a lot more interest in Smart than there ever was in R9R each time DA dangled him and found no takers.
And then Danny hit pay dirt when the Mavs gave up Jae Crowder for him!
Pud
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 5, 2021 11:57:49 GMT -5
Much like you were on Rondo, who was at least 3 times the player Smart will ever be! That's been your beef with Smart all along.
When the Cs drafted Smart, that signaled the merciful end of the "CapTripleDub" era.
I suspect that there will be a lot more interest in Smart than there ever was in R9R each time DA dangled him and found no takers.
And then Danny hit pay dirt when the Mavs gave up Jae Crowder for him!
Pud
So you don't think Rondo was as good as Smart?
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 5, 2021 11:58:35 GMT -5
Not bein ga great defender, but an NBA first team All defensive player makes them at worst an ELITE NBA player. which is something above average role player to me yes. to help you going back to 2000 Bruce Bowen Tony Allen were also two times all first team defense in the NBA. Both could fall into the category or good NBA role players . I hapen to feel Smart is better than both. and every other player on that last in the last 20 years ( TWO TIME NBA FIRST TEAM DEFENSE) were all-stars or hall of fame type players. People seem to think the guys that make those teams are garbage, they are elite NBA players (with only a few exceptions). I haven’t said he’s garbage…he’s a role player, and a good one. He’s not an elite NBA player in any sense of the word. He’s in the same category as Bowen and Allen, which are the names I gave you. They are role players and are the exceptions Patrick Beverly, in more ways then one!!
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 12:11:20 GMT -5
I haven’t said he’s garbage…he’s a role player, and a good one. He’s not an elite NBA player in any sense of the word. He’s in the same category as Bowen and Allen, which are the names I gave you. They are role players and are the exceptions Patrick Beverly, in more ways then one!! Right, Ron Artest...Theres a bunch if you really open up the filter and just say multiple time all nba defensive team player. A lot are great defenders, thats their role. Theres a reason he took more of an offensive load this year and all of a sudden isnt an all nba team defender
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 12:29:59 GMT -5
All of you are missing the point.
We have only four players that will bring more than a sack of beans.
Tatum Brown RWill and Smart.. Not one fuckin team in the NBA will give us jack shit for anyone else on our roster.
Take your pick of the four.. Tatum and Brown are signed long term so RWILL or Smart are the most likely two that will be traded.
You think the celtics have some other option?
.It really boils down to staying pat with who we have which we all know we are looking at the mininum of two to three years to become a contender.
We are in a pinch regardless of who you favor one of two are the most likely to be traded.
So you want to keep Rwill or Smart. Our depleated candy store only has two sweets to pick from.
Wyc let Ainge f**k us and f**k us over and over... Now you start crying?
No one listend to me the past few years when i tried to avoid this train wreck except Pud and maybe Boss..
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 5, 2021 12:35:02 GMT -5
Yeah. A lot of the Smart trade speculation is based on "If not Smart, what the F else do we have to trade?"
The potential saving grace was being able to use Fourniers contract in a S+T, and package it w picks/youngsters to maybe get something half-decent back. But that ship has sailed. Im not expecting many moves from here and think we are all but stuck w what we got. At least we moved last years first and not this years first to shed kemba for payroll alleviation (which doesnt even matter because we didnt even hard cap ourself). Lot of recent Boston GM screw ups.
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 12:36:07 GMT -5
All of you are missing the point. We have only four players that will bring more than a sack of beans. Tatum Brown RWill and Smart.. Not one fuckin team in the NBA will give us jack shit for anyone else on our roster. Take your pick of the four.. Tatum and Brown are signed long term so RWILL or Smart are the most likely two that will be traded. You think the celtics have some other option? .It really boils down to staying pat with who we have which we all know we are looking at the mininum of two to three years to become a contender. We are in a pinch regardless of who you favor one of two are the most likely to be traded. So you want to keep Rwill or Smart. Our depleated candy store only has two sweets to pick from. Wyc let Ainge f**k us and f**k us over and over... Now you start crying? No one listend to me the past few years when i tried to avoid this train wreck except Pud and maybe Boss.. I said the bolded since the day I joined here. Thats the process of trying to build through the draft
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 12:43:39 GMT -5
All of you are missing the point. We have only four players that will bring more than a sack of beans. Tatum Brown RWill and Smart.. Not one fuckin team in the NBA will give us jack shit for anyone else on our roster. Take your pick of the four.. Tatum and Brown are signed long term so RWILL or Smart are the most likely two that will be traded. You think the celtics have some other option? .It really boils down to staying pat with who we have which we all know we are looking at the mininum of two to three years to become a contender. We are in a pinch regardless of who you favor one of two are the most likely to be traded. So you want to keep Rwill or Smart. Our depleated candy store only has two sweets to pick from. Wyc let Ainge f**k us and f**k us over and over... Now you start crying? No one listend to me the past few years when i tried to avoid this train wreck except Pud and maybe Boss.. I said the bolded since the day I joined here. Thats the process of trying to build through the draft you were not here two years ago let alone four. My comment was in no way intended for you. Once apon a time we had half decent draft picks. We got two good players out of 20 some picks. Ainge burned thu the picks like Sherman burned thu Georgia.. The quote.. A crow better carry his lunch applies with the Celtics just like it did for Johnny Reb. We lost the damn war now we are paying the price..
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 12:48:28 GMT -5
I said the bolded since the day I joined here. Thats the process of trying to build through the draft you were not here two years ago let alone four. My comment was in no way intended for you. Once apon a time we had half decent draft picks. We got two good players out of 20 some picks. Ainge burned thu the picks like Sherman burned thu Georgia.. The quote.. A crow better carry his lunch applies with the Celtics just like it did for Johnny Reb. We lost the damn war now we are paying the price.. I know, but im saying if you want to build through the draft this is what happens. You need a lot of luck, and a lot of time. His drafting has actually been pretty good. You want to list the number of picks, but in the nba theres really only 14 quality spots to pick and even that is a stretch. He was in the top 6 three times, and came out with Tatum, Brown and Smart. Things could have been a lot worse
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 12:49:55 GMT -5
Who in the hell was standing beside Ainge and helping him light the fires?
Who was the partner in this crime?
Stevens
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 12:51:14 GMT -5
you were not here two years ago let alone four. My comment was in no way intended for you. Once apon a time we had half decent draft picks. We got two good players out of 20 some picks. Ainge burned thu the picks like Sherman burned thu Georgia.. The quote.. A crow better carry his lunch applies with the Celtics just like it did for Johnny Reb. We lost the damn war now we are paying the price.. I know, but im saying if you want to build through the draft this is what happens. You need a lot of luck, and a lot of time. His drafting has actually been pretty good. You want to list the number of picks, but in the nba theres really only 14 quality spots to pick and even that is a stretch. He was in the top 6 three times, and came out with Tatum, Brown and Smart. Things could have been a lot worse If Ainge's drafting or trading was so good.. Why are we having this conversation?
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 12:56:08 GMT -5
I know, but im saying if you want to build through the draft this is what happens. You need a lot of luck, and a lot of time. His drafting has actually been pretty good. You want to list the number of picks, but in the nba theres really only 14 quality spots to pick and even that is a stretch. He was in the top 6 three times, and came out with Tatum, Brown and Smart. Things could have been a lot worse If Ainge's drafting or trading was so good.. Why are we having this conversation? Whats the conversation? Why arent the Celtics a contender 4 years into the best players careers? Cause nobody wins that way. Unless you get the best FAs to join, building through the draft is almost impossible and it takes Years Like I said yesterday. Your guy Presti. Unbelievable string of drafts in the late 2000s. 0 championships...His fault? Curry was drafted in 09, didnt win til 2015.
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 12:59:10 GMT -5
I'm just a dumb hillbilly with a grade 8 education..
Pud has been the ONLY poster here who has come close to predicting this disaster with me.
Why in the hell would i come here to learn from great basketball minds?
They are few and far between...
Now the crying starts? It's a little late......
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Post by dfries13 on Aug 5, 2021 13:02:40 GMT -5
If Ainge's drafting or trading was so good.. Why are we having this conversation? Whats the conversation? Why arent the Celtics a contender 4 years into the best players careers? Cause nobody wins that way. Unless you get the best FAs to join, building through the draft is almost impossible and it takes Years Like I said yesterday. Your guy Presti. Unbelievable string of drafts in the late 2000s. 0 championships...His fault? Presti is not my man. I said that yesterday you miss a lot of shit.. Presti isn't going to change water into wine.. No one is at this point.. Better rub Lucky and light the candles and hope that he has Merlin in his pocket....
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Post by solly on Aug 5, 2021 13:08:41 GMT -5
Whats the conversation? Why arent the Celtics a contender 4 years into the best players careers? Cause nobody wins that way. Unless you get the best FAs to join, building through the draft is almost impossible and it takes Years Like I said yesterday. Your guy Presti. Unbelievable string of drafts in the late 2000s. 0 championships...His fault? Presti is not my man. I said that yesterday you miss a lot of shit.. Presti isn't going to change water into wine.. No one is at this point.. Better rub Lucky and light the candles and hope that he has Merlin in his pocket.... Yesterday you said youd prefer him over BS right. Figured you wouldve liked him over Ainge considering you hate him as well? Regardless if hes your guy or not...Youd take drafting KD, Harden, Westbrook, Ibaka in a few year stretch right? Like you said Rub lucky and hope you get lucky. Welcome to the NBA when you arent a FA destination
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