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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 8:12:38 GMT -5
New Roster: DinWiddie - Smart - White Brown - Hart - Langford Tatum - Nesmith - Draft PickMarkkanen - Bagley III - Young RWill - Harrell - Noeldouble dipping? getting White, Young and newly signed Markkanen for Kemba, Grant W.and our first is a wash on the cap, we'd still be over the tax line. that means money for only ONE free agent in the $6M range or so (MLE). I'll assume the Bagley for Fournier in a S&T swap for shits and giggles. so I fixed your roster there with your moves. add back in Pritchard, Edwards and Parker then. and you have Smart, White, Pritchard Brown, Hart (MLE), Edwards Tatum, Nesmith, Langford Markkanen, Bagley, Parker Rob W, , Harrell, Young Do-able but only IF Chicago is run by total idiots to be frank. You're not paying attention. Trading Fournier for a TPE cuts $17MM off your cap. If the Kemba/Markkanen deal is a wash then there is room for DinWiddie. And deals are done in specific order to maximize cap space. TPE and S&T are done last as the S&T hard caps you.
1st you create cap space, then you sign your FA and then TPE signings and finally S&T acquisition ... there's always more available when done in proper order than some lump sum figure only as you are presumimg.
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 1, 2021 8:13:45 GMT -5
Fournier is not signed next year currently is not counted against the $135M in salarys on the Celtics books see here: www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2021/so signing and trading him takes nothing off our current salary's. and we are about $27M OVER the cap without Fournier. The only way to get un der the cap is to dump Kemba for almost nothing. Even that only gets you about $9M under the cap before draft picks (have to keep that number) and cap holds (Celtics can renounce them all). very very HARD to get enough cap space to do a quality Free agent signing this off-season. I think any deal where Chicago will move Markkanen and White (again two recent top 10 draft picks for them) for a deal centered on Kemba and our middle first round pick is not going to happen. But I do agree that Kemba to the knicks could, maybe, shall we try praying? be possible. I guess I feel Kemba has little to no value in the NBA right now as a trade asset, while you see him having much more than I . you also think much more highly of any value of a TPE (which cannot be used in a sign and trade I believe anyway) than I do also. I see them as basically worthless unless you want to take on another teams expiring contract. I love this time of the year though!
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Post by DaCeltics on Jun 1, 2021 11:43:20 GMT -5
Work a deal to draft as many of these guys as you can:
Zaire Williams Davion Mitchell Kai Jones Jalen Johnson
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Post by DaCeltics on Jun 1, 2021 11:43:39 GMT -5
They all play defense.
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Post by solly on Jun 1, 2021 12:11:52 GMT -5
Can any of them play offense?
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 1, 2021 12:21:05 GMT -5
Work a deal to draft as many of these guys as you can: Zaire Williams Davion Mitchell Kai Jones Jalen Johnson so you wanna take a major step back the Next couple years and rebuild with youth? that may be a hard sell for many Celtic fans who are already disappointed in this years .500 team. but I guess as long as Tatum and Brown are good with it, Ainge could make that happen. www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2021-cade-cunningham-looks-like-no-1-pick-regardless-of-who-wins-lottery/updated mock from CBS has them at #16 (our current pick) #18, #21 and #7. getting that#7 pick would be pretty hard without giving up a key piece (and no I doubt Anything less than Tatum, Brown, Smart or Rob Williams would get that pick). Knicks have #19 so we could unload Kemba to them for that one maybe. #18 is OKC' pick right now....how about Prictahced and nesmith for that pick? so Rob Williams to Toronto for #7 pick (Mitchell) K. Jones with our #16 pick Nesmith and Pritchard to OKC for #18 (Z. Williams) Kemba to the Knicks for #21 (J. Johnson) there i got them all for you AND the team is now well under the tax line moving forward $45M off the cap with four players traded $11M or so added for the FOUR rookies takes the team to about $102M in salary's or under the cap by $7M, with 12 players under contract. Could still resign Fournier, Semi, Kornet, Tacko or Walters with Bird rights OR use the $7M in cap space for a FA AND use the MLE for another FA. so keep going please, I want to see how you fill out the roster right now your have (based on my proposed trades to the picks of course) Smart, Mitchell (#7), Brown, Z. Williams (#18), Edwards? Tatum, Langford, J.Johnson (#21) ??, Grant W, Parker Thompson, K. Jones (#16), ?? only three more players to pick up, Starting PF seems most needed with $7M or the MLE? BU center (Kornet, tacko?) a vet PG maybe with room of MLE (depending on which is used for PF)? though I doubt they ever go that young myself, I'd like to see how you finish the roster build?
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Post by DaCeltics on Jun 1, 2021 12:43:37 GMT -5
Work a deal to draft as many of these guys as you can: Zaire Williams Davion Mitchell Kai Jones Jalen Johnson so you wanna take a major step back the Next couple years and rebuild with youth? that may be a hard sell for many Celtic fans who are already disappointed in this years .500 team. but I guess as long as Tatum and Brown are good with it, Ainge could make that happen. www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2021-cade-cunningham-looks-like-no-1-pick-regardless-of-who-wins-lottery/updated mock from CBS has them at #16 (our current pick) #18, #21 and #7. getting that#7 pick would be pretty hard without giving up a key piece (and no I doubt Anything less than Tatum, Brown, Smart or Rob Williams would get that pick). Knicks have #19 so we could unload Kemba to them for that one maybe. #18 is OKC' pick right now....how about Prictahced and nesmith for that pick? so Rob Williams to Toronto for #7 pick (Mitchell) K. Jones with our #16 pick Nesmith and Pritchard to OKC for #18 (Z. Williams) Kemba to the Knicks for #21 (J. Johnson) there i got them all for you AND the team is now well under the tax line moving forward $45M off the cap with four players traded $11M or so added for the FOUR rookies takes the team to about $102M in salary's or under the cap by $7M, with 12 players under contract. Could still resign Fournier, Semi, Kornet, Tacko or Walters with Bird rights OR use the $7M in cap space for a FA AND use the MLE for another FA. so keep going please, I want to see how you fill out the roster right now your have (based on my proposed trades to the picks of course) Smart, Mitchell (#7), Brown, Z. Williams (#18), Edwards? Tatum, Langford, J.Johnson (#21) ??, Grant W, Parker Thompson, K. Jones (#16), ?? only three more players to pick up, Starting PF seems most needed with $7M or the MLE? BU center (Kornet, tacko?) a vet PG maybe with room of MLE (depending on which is used for PF)? though I doubt they ever go that young myself, I'd like to see how you finish the roster build? I don't want to trade R Williams Tatum or Brown or Nesmith. Everybody else is available. This would be a step back move in order to spring forward.
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Post by DaCeltics on Jun 1, 2021 12:54:37 GMT -5
I think Nesmith and Pritchard are better than Rozier was as a rookie.
And we see what he's doing now.
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Post by DaCeltics on Jun 1, 2021 12:56:06 GMT -5
If it comes down to Pritchard and Nesmith I take the greater height, length, and defensive versatility.
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 12:57:19 GMT -5
Fournier is not signed next year currently is not counted against the $135M in salarys on the Celtics books see here: www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2021/so signing and trading him takes nothing off our current salary's. and we are about $27M OVER the cap without Fournier. The only way to get un der the cap is to dump Kemba for almost nothing. Even that only gets you about $9M under the cap before draft picks (have to keep that number) and cap holds (Celtics can renounce them all). very very HARD to get enough cap space to do a quality Free agent signing this off-season. I think any deal where Chicago will move Markkanen and White (again two recent top 10 draft picks for them) for a deal centered on Kemba and our middle first round pick is not going to happen. But I do agree that Kemba to the knicks could, maybe, shall we try praying? be possible. I guess I feel Kemba has little to no value in the NBA right now as a trade asset, while you see him having much more than I . you also think much more highly of any value of a TPE (which cannot be used in a sign and trade I believe anyway) than I do also. I see them as basically worthless unless you want to take on another teams expiring contract. I love this time of the year though! You don't know what you're talking about! Scroll down to Cap Holds and find Evans cap hold of $26MM (cuz we have Bird Rts) and thats included in the $136MM of taxable salaries. So excluding the $26MM cap hold if traded for a TPE eliminates that entire hold! And TPEs are not included so if we S&T him for $20MM we get a new TPE of $20MM not included in the cap. You sound confident and talk like you know your shit but I question your entire analysis if you don't know this.
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 1, 2021 13:02:06 GMT -5
OK..so who would you trade to Toronto to get that #7 pick, Smart ?
I doubt anything less than one of Tatum,. Brown Smart and Rob would get it myself. Not to mention trading Smart means we'd have to bring back some salary to make the deal meet cap rules too.
R. Hood and that #7 pick for Smart? Smart is on and expiring deal though.
Thompson comes to mind as I thought I read he was born in Toronto, but I'm not sure they'd give up the #7 pick for Thompsons' expiring deal. I like it if they would though, they could even send us A. Baynes non-guaranteed salary back to make it work cap wise.
and I assume you'd be fine with Pritchard and Langford to OKC for #18 then?
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 1, 2021 13:07:55 GMT -5
Fournier is not signed next year currently is not counted against the $135M in salarys on the Celtics books see here: www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2021/so signing and trading him takes nothing off our current salary's. and we are about $27M OVER the cap without Fournier. The only way to get un der the cap is to dump Kemba for almost nothing. Even that only gets you about $9M under the cap before draft picks (have to keep that number) and cap holds (Celtics can renounce them all). very very HARD to get enough cap space to do a quality Free agent signing this off-season. I think any deal where Chicago will move Markkanen and White (again two recent top 10 draft picks for them) for a deal centered on Kemba and our middle first round pick is not going to happen. But I do agree that Kemba to the knicks could, maybe, shall we try praying? be possible. I guess I feel Kemba has little to no value in the NBA right now as a trade asset, while you see him having much more than I . you also think much more highly of any value of a TPE (which cannot be used in a sign and trade I believe anyway) than I do also. I see them as basically worthless unless you want to take on another teams expiring contract. I love this time of the year though! yes he is ... there's a cap hold of $17MM cuz we have Bird Rts ... you sound confident but I question your entire analysis if you don't know this. please see the link , it is not my work: www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/2021/as you can see the Celtics have 12 players under contract next season with a total cap hit of $135.9M Fournier's hold is not counted and listed below the salary's with his hold at $26.1M . IF we re-sign him that ADDs to the $136M we currently have under contract. again please see the link I provided, they are just the numbers for next season. we do have bird rights but that does not mean the h9olds counts against the hard salary's listed in the link. Nest years salarys on our books right now from sportrac; Kemba- $36M Tatun- $28M (estimate may end up being more) brown- $26M Smart - $14.3M Thompson- $9.7M Langford- $3.8M Rob W- $3.6M Nesmith- $3.6M grant W. - $2.6M Parker- $2.2M ( non guearnateed) Prichard- $2.1M Edwards- $1.7M we also have $1.1M in dead cap space those with calculators can do the math........$135.9M in total salarys on your books next without any holds or our first round draft pick. wish it wasn't true!!
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 13:09:55 GMT -5
I'm busy now but I will review and stand corrected if the hold is not included in the $136MM ...
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 15:22:30 GMT -5
So we can't get under the cap successfully to do anything over $9-10MM with the MLE. That means we need to find a PG that someone is losing to free agency and interest them in a S&T ...
Pattie Mills comes to mind. He's wanted to play for the C's before and can be had for $11-15MM if Pop doesn't want to keep him. The $17-20MM TPE from Fournier will cover that and SA gets their own TPE worth $12-15MM.
We still have the $11MM TPE left from Hayward > Fournier that will fit BagleyIII.
Still ways to work around it ...
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Post by cole on Jun 1, 2021 18:23:23 GMT -5
So we can't get under the cap successfully to do anything over $9-10MM with the MLE. That means we need to find a PG that someone is losing to free agency and interest them in a S&T ... Pattie Mills comes to mind. He's wanted to play for the C's before and can be had for $11-15MM if Pop doesn't want to keep him. The $17-20MM TPE from Fournier will cover that and SA gets their own TPE worth $12-15MM. We still have the $11MM TPE left from Hayward > Fournier that will fit BagleyIII. Still ways to work around it ... With a name like Pattie...Boston will love him!
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Post by Admin on Jun 1, 2021 22:42:19 GMT -5
Celtics offseason primer: What can Danny Ainge do to improve roster with trades and in free agency? (Photo by Tim Bradbury/Getty Images) By Brian Robb | brobb@masslive.com
The Celtics’ disappointing season came to an official end on Tuesday night with their loss against the Nets, setting the stage for a critical and challenging offseason for the franchise after a first-round exit. Let’s examine the tools Danny Ainge and the Celtics offseason have at their disposal as they attempt to get this team back on the trajectory towards contending and the significant obstacles within that path.
Under contract for 2021-22
Kemba Walker: $36 million
Jayson Tatum: $28.1 million ($33.7 million if he makes All-NBA)
Jaylen Brown: $26.8 million
Marcus Smart: $14.3 million
Tristan Thompson: $9.7 million
Romeo Langford: $3.8 million
Rob Williams: $3.6 million
Aaron Nesmith: $3.6 million
Grant Williams: $2.6 million
Payton Pritchard: $2.1 million
Carsen Edwards: $1.7 million
No. 16 pick: $3.2 million cap hold
Jabari Parker: $2.3 million (only $100k guaranteed)
Total: $135.9 million committed to 12 player slots (including No. 20 pick, non Tatum All-NBA)
2021-22 NBA Estimates:
Projected Salary cap: $112.4 million
Projected Luxury tax: $136.6 million
Projected Apron: $142 million
2021 Celtics free agents
Evan Fournier (unrestricted with Bird Rights): The Celtics gave up two future second-round picks for about 30 games for Fournier in the present. However, a big part of this deal for Boston was made in order to acquire Fournier’s Bird Rights, which allows the Celtics to go over the cap to re-sign him for any amount this offseason. Fournier is likely to command a new deal starting at somewhere around $15 million per season so keeping him will not be easy without clearing some other salary off the books. However, it does give the Celtics the option of signing a quality wing that they would not otherwise have had access to, due to being over the cap with their current salary commitments. It also gives Boston a few other options (sign-and-trade) to leverage his value if they aren’t able to retain him. How much the team decides Fournier is worth in his next contract is the far tougher choice, along with what players on the roster would need to be moved if he’s retained in order to stay within the team’s budget.
Semi Ojeleye (unrestricted with Bird Rights): The reserve forward had a strong start to his fourth year in Boston but faded out of the rotation as the year continued. He will get a chance next year but the odds are it won’t be in Boston unless the team wants to bring him back on a veteran’s minimum. It’s doubtful Ojeleye will be able to do better than that on the open market.
Luke Kornet (unrestricted with early Bird Rights): Could be brought back as a veteran’s minimum guy as last big on the bench but this is probably a spot on roster C’s try to upgrade.
Two-way players (restricted free agents)
Tremont Waters: The team had high hopes for the second round pick but he wasn’t able to be a meaningful contributor for the second straight year when given opportunities. He remains a borderline NBA player.
Tacko Fall: He showed good improvement in year two but still has a long way to go to become a viable backup center in the NBA. He could be kept as a fourth center on a two-way deal but the team may opt for younger talent that fills a better positional need in this spot as well.
ANALYSIS
There will not be a lot of free agent flexibility here for the Celtics heading into a pivotal season for the franchise. An already hefty payroll commitment of $136 million on a roster that is in need of upgrades in multiple posts will actually increase by over $5 million if Jayson Tatum makes an All-NBA team this season. The Celtics will be a luxury tax team for the foreseeable future due to the contracts of Tatum, Brown and Walker and that will limit what type of upgrades they can target on the free agent market. A tax team is only limited to using the taxpayer midlevel exception ($5.9 million) on the free agent market if they will be above the tax apron ($142 million) a very likely path for Boston as things currently stand. That small amount along with veteran minimum’s contracts and trades will be the only path for Danny Ainge and company to improve the roster in free agency. Due to that, it’s clear the Celtics will need to be active on the trade front if they are committed to making meaningful changes or upgrades to this current roster.
On top of the mid-level exception, the Celtics do have a couple other tools they can use in a trade beyond shopping their own talent and future draft picks. The team has a chunk of the Gordon Hayward trade exception remaining ($11 million) after using $17 milion of it to acquire Evan Fournier for two second round picks back in March. They also have a pair of smaller trade exceptions ($5 million or under) that could help for minor moves.
However, Boston’s own trade assets are incredibly limited outside of their young All-Stars, who in all likelihood aren’t going anywhere. So what’s leftover with value? Kemba Walker is one of the most overpaid players in the NBA and league sources expect the Celtics to explore moving him in a trade to help create some current and future salary flexibility and reduce what is currently set to be the highest tax bill in team history (if the team wants to re-sign Fournier for market value). Marcus Smart is a useful trade chip but he only has one year left on his deal so his value is limited on the open market. One league source told MassLive that getting a late first round pick for Smart would be a challenge unless Boston took back an unattractive contract as part of the deal. For that reason, it might be tough for the Celtics to find a deal they like enough to move him. Bringing Smart back, re-signing Evan Fournier and keeping Kemba Walker is highly unlikely however since those salaries create a monster tax bill for ownership and a roster that probably still isn’t a contending core in the East given the firepower in Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Brooklyn.
Elsewhere, there’s no obvious answers for tweaks to the roster. Tristan Thompson looks overpaid for the mid-level exception. The team could move him but they would have to find another center to replace him on a very limited free agency budget ($6 million). Young players like Rob Williams, Aaron Nesmith, and Payton Pritchard have some appeal around the league but there are big question marks swirling around all of them, particularly the durability of Williams. Beyond that? The back-end of the roster probably is a bottom-five bench in the entire NBA based on talent level. The team opted on waiting for youth development over low-cost veterans and that decision did not pay off in 2020-21. Moving those guys aren’t going to bring back anything of value.
Boston’s front office has to upgrade the team’s depth, and also improve the team’s core around Tatum and Brown. Tough decisions that the team has been kicking the can on for years will likely need to be made since running it back with this group makes no sense from a financial and on-court standpoint.
All of that leaves the Celtics front office with nearly no margin of error. A talent drain over the past few years in Boston is now apparent just as the team’s payroll commitments grow bigger than ever. They need to hit on the fringes with low cost, high value additions and get creative to improve the top half of the roster. Having two All-Stars to build around is a good place to begin but it’s not going to be easy to upgrade a supporting cast around them.
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 2, 2021 6:38:01 GMT -5
well, I guess I do know shit after all!!
LOL
no harm no foul I suppose, but I do know what the hell I'm talking about with the cap "shit".
on another note, that last article maybe should have its own thread and stickied to the top, as there may be many disagreements in the coming weeks about what can and can't be done this off-season.
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Post by Admin on Jun 4, 2021 21:28:33 GMT -5
Here's a trade idea: Brogdon is more of a SG and the Pacers depended upon him as a PG. Kemba would be an upgrade at PG and Turner is a stretch 5 we need and missed out on before. With McBuckets a FA now, we opt for Brogdon who Ainge coveted and Brad surely would love to have a vet shooter to spread the floor even more for JT & JB. Brogdon would be a better option over Fournier for similar money. S&T Fournier for a new TPE unless he can be used to get us Markkanen or some othe useful piece. To sweeten the deal we've included Smart who gives the Pacers a backup PG and SG with defensive chops, something they desperately need. Maybe a draft pick or two assures this gets done and both teams will benefit from the trade.
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Post by Admin on Jun 4, 2021 21:59:00 GMT -5
Now that we have our Stretch5 and a bonafide SG, let's get a stud PG and that PF that can fill in at the 5 and stretch the floor at PF and be the Celtics' version of Anthony Davis.
The reason this trade doesn't work is because Markkanen needs to be S&T'd ($20MM) by the Bulls in return for a S&T'd Fournier ($18MM). The Bulls need a veteran backup at Center for Vucevic, especially if unable to resign Theis. With LaVine playing PG and Valentine on his way out (most likely as an UFA - a disappointment since drafted due to bad knees - another Kemba?), Satoransky is their only other SG so Fournier will solve that problem and Pritchard gives them another backup PG to spell LaVine. White is a starter and won't be content as a backup whereas Payton knows what his roll is and has already proven himself.
Once these two deals are done we will need a vet PG to be signed or traded for with the MLE or some of our remaining bench riff raff ... Grant & Edwards or picked up with one of our many TPE's.
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Post by Admin on Jun 4, 2021 22:05:07 GMT -5
I still want Bagley III from the Kings and they don't want to take on any salary so here I use our remaining $11MM TPE and a 1st rd pick to bring this PF into the fold.
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 5, 2021 6:40:58 GMT -5
your roster (with Salary's):
Rob W, - 3.6M Turner- 18.0M Bagley- 11.3M Markkanen- 20.0M Gant W. - 2.6M Parker- 2.3M tatum- 28.1M Nesmith- 3.6M brown- 26.7M Langford- 3.8M Brogdon- 21.7M White- 5.8M Edwards- 1.8M
two open roster spots
your team salary stands at $149.2M
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 5, 2021 7:04:37 GMT -5
I doubt there are more than 3 new players in green when next season starts to be honest.
Of course none of us have any idea about what type of POBO Stevens will be, sadly I doubt he will be making earth shaking moves in his first year.
I can see him running it back with basically the same team and a new HC ( and maybe better player health).
Ainge used all his chips/draft picks/assets before he left for Utah in retirement. Leaving Stevens with only his own draft picks, a roster at the tax line now, some worthless TPE's and a roster full of less desirable trade assets to other teams.
Good Luck with that!
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Post by kdp59 on Jun 5, 2021 8:53:37 GMT -5
what a possible "run it back" roster could look like next season:
let Founrier go and use the Taxpaying MLE ($6m) to sign a player like D. McDermott, T. Snell or M. Harkless. not much less player quality there but a lot less salary.
draft Josh Giddey or Jared Butler at #16.
re-sign Kornet or Tacko for the final roster spot at vet minimum.
Team would end up around $146M in total salary's and be about $10M over the tax line with basically the same team as this year.
Roster: Rob W.- 3.6M Thompson- 9.7M Kornet/tacko- 2.5M Tatum- 28.1M (maybe more) Grant W. - 2.6M Parker- 2.3M Brown- 26.7M McDermott/Snell- 6.0M Nesmith- 3.6M Smart- 14.3M Langford-3.8M Edwards- 1.8M Kemba- 36.0M Pritchard- 2.1M Butler/Giddey- 2.6M
That's what a run it back type roster would likely look like, IMO.
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Post by elvissurfs on Jun 5, 2021 9:43:22 GMT -5
I doubt there are more than 3 new players in green when next season starts to be honest. Of course none of us have any idea about what type of POBO Stevens will be, sadly I doubt he will be making earth shaking moves in his first year. I can see him running it back with basically the same team and a new HC ( and maybe better player health). Ainge used all his chips/draft picks/assets before he left for Utah in retirement. Leaving Stevens with only his own draft picks, a roster at the tax line now, some worthless TPE's and a roster full of less desirable trade assets to other teams. Good Luck with that! That pretty much sums it up quite well...we are screwed...
At least the Lakers are out of the playoffs already...and looking hobbled by two aging/injured guys who get half of the team's salary...
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Post by cole on Jun 5, 2021 10:55:42 GMT -5
Locked on Celtics John Karalis with an interesting take on the Stevens position. He questions whether Stevens will be hampered by his coaching relationships when making tough player calls. And in terms of picking a head coach as well
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