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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:14:24 GMT -5
TT is also a part. Not the main part. That's fine. My argument holds water however. Saying that TT makes us a better defensive team just isn't so.. Saying TT is a upgrade over Turner simply isn't true.. He gets some offensive boards.. Can't put em back anymore.. There is no argument of shot blocking prowess. No contest. Turner is the man there. What is up for debate seems to be at its root, the value of rebounding. Rebounding gets you possessions. More possessions offensive or defensive is greater than the value of blocked or altered shots. Why? Because its tangible. The ball is definitely yours. Altered/Blocked/Declined shots may not result in you having the ball. So rebounds are a greater stat to me than shot blocks. Clearly we all differ in that valuation.
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:18:20 GMT -5
That brings me to another point.
We need to track declined shots!
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:22:36 GMT -5
A declined shot would be defined as being in scoring position or posture/motion and passing instead due to a defensive threat of pressure.
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Post by solly on Jan 28, 2021 11:26:31 GMT -5
I wouldve done that deal pretty quickly. I am of the opinion their defense will show up in the playoffs or when they want to give effort, but they are never going to get the rim protection that Turner wouldve provided Don't get me started on how quickly I would have pulled the trigger on that deal..... Its really just the tangible vs intangible for me. You had that deal in front of you and it wouldve improved your team. Could the TPE get a better player? Sure Could it not be used? or used on something worse? Ya about 75% of the time. Id just take the deal in front of you in this case
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:26:31 GMT -5
I don't remember what each person said, I do, however, remember what I said:
Getting Turner and McBuckets is better than NOTHING because most TPE's go unused......I then agreed to wait until/if we used the TPE - so I won't say anything.
I also said last year Theis was our Center, and we came within two wins of reaching the Finals. When we added Thompson, I believe I was the one who said.................is he APPRECIABLY better than Theis? How much of an improvement is he over Theis? I'm sticking to my guns here, we could have done better for 9 mill than Thompson. I said Theis was better then, and I'll say it now!
I said also that Teague was an upgrade over Wanamaker. I am now questioning that statement. I think Pritchard might be an upgrade over Wanamaker, but Teague has been overall a disappointment, after a promising start.
So, I'm still pissed at our GM for not upgrading our team at the appropriate time, and I will continue to be pissed if we are just "good". THIS was supposed to be the year. All picks are gone, the two H's left us in Free Agency, and we are still "good." How much better would we be had the trigger been pulled on this deal? That makes for interesting commentary, so let's have at it
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Post by fierce on Jan 28, 2021 11:35:11 GMT -5
Our defense is giving up more points per game this year.. Who's the new guy in town? TT. case closed.. If the season is over today then I agree with you. But this is only 17 out of 72 games. Case wide open!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 11:35:59 GMT -5
That's fine. My argument holds water however. Saying that TT makes us a better defensive team just isn't so.. Saying TT is a upgrade over Turner simply isn't true.. He gets some offensive boards.. Can't put em back anymore.. There is no argument of shot blocking prowess. No contest. Turner is the man there. What is up for debate seems to be at its root, the value of rebounding. Rebounding gets you possessions. More possessions offensive or defensive is greater than the value of blocked or altered shots. Why? Because its tangible. The ball is definitely yours. Altered/Blocked/Declined shots may not result in you having the ball. So rebounds are a greater stat to me than shot blocks. Clearly we all differ in that valuation. No we don't differ.. Turner is averaging about the same rebounds as TT the past 10 games.. TT has more offensive boards. We can say its a wash with offensive boards and rim protection or altered shots if that makes ya happy Turner can score TT can't.. We need scoring and rim protection according to most here. Turner provides both he also gives us another very good floor spacer with his 3% over 40. I have no clue how you can say TT is a better fit..
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:36:36 GMT -5
I think Fierce explained that we would not be able to add TT and maybe Teague if we took the trade instead.
So by getting TPE Ainge MAXIMIZED the scenario.
Gained more assets, as he is paid to do. He is not paid to settle.
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Post by kyceltic on Jan 28, 2021 11:36:57 GMT -5
I don't remember what each person said, I do, however, remember what I said: Getting Turner and McBuckets is better than NOTHING because most TPE's go unused......I then agreed to wait until/if we used the TPE - so I won't say anything. I also said last year Theis was our Center, and we came within two wins of reaching the Finals. When we added Thompson, I believe I was the one who said.................is he APPRECIABLY better than Theis? How much of an improvement is he over Theis? I'm sticking to my guns here, we could have done better for 9 mill than Thompson. I said Theis was better then, and I'll say it now! I said also that Teague was an upgrade over Wanamaker. I am now questioning that statement. I think Pritchard might be an upgrade over Wanamaker, but Teague has been overall a disappointment, after a promising start. So, I'm still pissed at our GM for not upgrading our team at the appropriate time, and I will continue to be pissed if we are just "good". THIS was supposed to be the year. All picks are gone, the two H's left us in Free Agency, and we are still "good." How much better would we be had the trigger been pulled on this deal? That makes for interesting commentary, so let's have at it Not taking that deal is making Ainge look worse everyday! Teague so far is almost useless! If Ainge fails to improve this team, and tells us "I like my guys" he should be replaced!
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Post by fierce on Jan 28, 2021 11:36:59 GMT -5
I don't remember what each person said, I do, however, remember what I said: Getting Turner and McBuckets is better than NOTHING because most TPE's go unused......I then agreed to wait until/if we used the TPE - so I won't say anything. I also said last year Theis was our Center, and we came within two wins of reaching the Finals. When we added Thompson, I believe I was the one who said.................is he APPRECIABLY better than Theis? How much of an improvement is he over Theis? I'm sticking to my guns here, we could have done better for 9 mill than Thompson. I said Theis was better then, and I'll say it now! I said also that Teague was an upgrade over Wanamaker. I am now questioning that statement. I think Pritchard might be an upgrade over Wanamaker, but Teague has been overall a disappointment, after a promising start. So, I'm still pissed at our GM for not upgrading our team at the appropriate time, and I will continue to be pissed if we are just "good". THIS was supposed to be the year. All picks are gone, the two H's left us in Free Agency, and we are still "good." How much better would we be had the trigger been pulled on this deal? That makes for interesting commentary, so let's have at it Who? Mason Plumlee? Aron Baynes?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 11:37:20 GMT -5
I wouldve done that deal pretty quickly. I am of the opinion their defense will show up in the playoffs or when they want to give effort, but they are never going to get the rim protection that Turner wouldve provided Don't get me started on how quickly I would have pulled the trigger on that deal..... Most all here wanted Turner its not a debate..
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Post by fierce on Jan 28, 2021 11:39:40 GMT -5
Don't get me started on how quickly I would have pulled the trigger on that deal..... Most all here wanted Turner its not a debate.. Don't be a coward. You keep talking about guns when you can't even put your money where your mouth is. What happened to the principle of coming in 2nd is unacceptable? Now you're happy if the Celts just get out of the east but can't beat the Lakers? What happened to all that talk about che is only happy if it's trophies and championships?
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:41:13 GMT -5
I think Fierce explained that we would not be able to add TT and maybe Teague if we took the trade instead. So by getting TPE Ainge MAXIMIZED the scenario. Gained more assets, as he is paid to do. He is not paid to settle. How did he gain more assets. He let arguably our third best player walk out the door for an obtuse, hard to comprehend salary piece that is not used 75% of the time. And I think letting the asshole from Butler walk and replacing him with Thompson and Teague has made us worse.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:41:47 GMT -5
I don't remember what each person said, I do, however, remember what I said: Getting Turner and McBuckets is better than NOTHING because most TPE's go unused......I then agreed to wait until/if we used the TPE - so I won't say anything. I also said last year Theis was our Center, and we came within two wins of reaching the Finals. When we added Thompson, I believe I was the one who said.................is he APPRECIABLY better than Theis? How much of an improvement is he over Theis? I'm sticking to my guns here, we could have done better for 9 mill than Thompson. I said Theis was better then, and I'll say it now! I said also that Teague was an upgrade over Wanamaker. I am now questioning that statement. I think Pritchard might be an upgrade over Wanamaker, but Teague has been overall a disappointment, after a promising start. So, I'm still pissed at our GM for not upgrading our team at the appropriate time, and I will continue to be pissed if we are just "good". THIS was supposed to be the year. All picks are gone, the two H's left us in Free Agency, and we are still "good." How much better would we be had the trigger been pulled on this deal? That makes for interesting commentary, so let's have at it Who? Mason Plumlee? Aron Baynes? Who said it had to be a Center? NOT ME.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 11:42:07 GMT -5
I think Fierce explained that we would not be able to add TT and maybe Teague if we took the trade instead. So by getting TPE Ainge MAXIMIZED the scenario. Gained more assets, as he is paid to do. He is not paid to settle. I think your off the deep end agan. With Turner we wouldn't need TT.. TEAGUE only makes 2.5 mil and could have be added easily
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:42:44 GMT -5
I don't remember what each person said, I do, however, remember what I said: Getting Turner and McBuckets is better than NOTHING because most TPE's go unused......I then agreed to wait until/if we used the TPE - so I won't say anything. I also said last year Theis was our Center, and we came within two wins of reaching the Finals. When we added Thompson, I believe I was the one who said.................is he APPRECIABLY better than Theis? How much of an improvement is he over Theis? I'm sticking to my guns here, we could have done better for 9 mill than Thompson. I said Theis was better then, and I'll say it now! I said also that Teague was an upgrade over Wanamaker. I am now questioning that statement. I think Pritchard might be an upgrade over Wanamaker, but Teague has been overall a disappointment, after a promising start. So, I'm still pissed at our GM for not upgrading our team at the appropriate time, and I will continue to be pissed if we are just "good". THIS was supposed to be the year. All picks are gone, the two H's left us in Free Agency, and we are still "good." How much better would we be had the trigger been pulled on this deal? That makes for interesting commentary, so let's have at it Not taking that deal is making Ainge look worse everyday! Teague so far is almost useless! If Ainge fails to improve this team, and tells us "I like my guys" he should be replaced! How about impeached?
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:43:34 GMT -5
I think Fierce explained that we would not be able to add TT and maybe Teague if we took the trade instead. So by getting TPE Ainge MAXIMIZED the scenario. Gained more assets, as he is paid to do. He is not paid to settle. How did he gain more assets. He let arguably our third best player walk out the door for an obtuse, hard to comprehend salary piece that is not used 75% of the time. And I think letting the asshole from Butler walk and replacing him with Thompson and Teague has made us worse. At least they're playing more games and Hayward so far.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:43:48 GMT -5
I think Fierce explained that we would not be able to add TT and maybe Teague if we took the trade instead. So by getting TPE Ainge MAXIMIZED the scenario. Gained more assets, as he is paid to do. He is not paid to settle. I think your off the deep end agan. With Turner we wouldn't need TT.. TEAGUE only makes 2.5 mil and could have be added easily AMEN brother
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Post by fierce on Jan 28, 2021 11:48:39 GMT -5
Who? Mason Plumlee? Aron Baynes? Who said it had to be a Center? NOT ME. The Celts needed a Center. In this game you said Theis would close, I said TT would close. Theis only played 12 minutes because he was no match for Aldridge. Before 8:09 of the 3rd qtr., Aldridge already had 18 points. When TT came in for Theis at the 8:09 mark, Aldridge only managed to score 2 points until the game ended. The Center is a position the Celts needed badly to upgrade. TT is the short-term solution.
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Post by fierce on Jan 28, 2021 11:50:56 GMT -5
Wait!
Let's fact check.
Teague is not a 2.5m guy.
He's just a 1.6m guy.
So he's not part of the Hayward trade.
What the Celts got from Hayward is the ability to sign TT and a huge TPE.
Right now Ainge has not used the TPE.
So until we find out who becomes the TPE, it's not a finished trade.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:51:59 GMT -5
Who said it had to be a Center? NOT ME. The Celts needed a Center. In this game you said Theis would close, I said TT would close. Theis only played 12 minutes because he was no match for Aldridge. Before 8:09 of the 3rd qtr., Aldridge already had 18 points. When TT came in for Theis at the 8:09 mark, Aldridge only managed to score 2 points until the game ended. The Center is a position the Celts needed badly to upgrade. TT is the short-term solution. Didn't you write last night that Brad was subbing in offense-defense at that position. I believe BOTH Theis and Thompson played in the final minutes of the game. You have your opinion on this, and I have mine
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:52:18 GMT -5
I think Fierce explained that we would not be able to add TT and maybe Teague if we took the trade instead. So by getting TPE Ainge MAXIMIZED the scenario. Gained more assets, as he is paid to do. He is not paid to settle. How did he gain more assets. He let arguably our third best player walk out the door for an obtuse, hard to comprehend salary piece that is not used 75% of the time. And I think letting the asshole from Butler walk and replacing him with Thompson and Teague has made us worse. I'm sure just like any GM who doesn't re-sign somebody before the end of their contract he explored trades and clearly didn't find anything he liked which says everything about Hayward's value leaguewide. Nobody looked at him as the next Kawhi Leonard one year rental.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 28, 2021 11:53:11 GMT -5
No one said Teague was part of the TPE.
What was said, I believe, was that IF the trade to IND happened, we still could have signed him. I think you can "fact check" back a few posts and see if that's what was said.
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:53:39 GMT -5
By the way did I call the availability of Lonzo Ball and JJ Redick so long ago?
Yeah me! Lol
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Post by DaCeltics on Jan 28, 2021 11:54:39 GMT -5
I hope I'm right about Aaron Gordon being available, too.
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