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Post by kyceltic on Jan 12, 2021 16:13:17 GMT -5
Imagine where we'd be if McHale wanted to be "the man", as opposed to an integral part of THREE titles!! With a prime Bird on the team, I'm sure it never crossed his mind, that he could be the man!
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Post by kyceltic on Jan 12, 2021 16:14:17 GMT -5
What you're referring to is balanced scoring. The balanced team I'm talking about is having one big man, two guards, and two forwards. Kemba, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown is not a balanced team. That's why Bam abused the Celts in the east finals. A more balanced team is Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum, and TT. If the Celts can add a guy like Aaron Gordon or Harrison Barnes or Thad Young then even better. We lost because Walker couldn't guard any fuckin player on the Heat. Â Beginning to think you never watch any games.. WRONG!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:15:57 GMT -5
Kind of both. We always move the tiny player to the weak side low post. Teams often attack from the other baseline side and crash over the top of him. That's how to exploit him without abandoning your offense. The problem got worse when the Celts had Kemba, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown on the court at the same time. Finally i agree..
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Post by kyceltic on Jan 12, 2021 16:20:06 GMT -5
A starting 5 of Kemba, Tatum, Brown, Harrison Barnes and TT, is a much more balanced team and a much better team then last year's team!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:20:55 GMT -5
We lost because Walker couldn't guard any fuckin player on the Heat. Beginning to think you never watch any games.. Kind of both. We always move the tiny player to the weak side low post. Teams often attack from the other baseline side and crash over the top of him. That's how to exploit him without abandoning your offense. Walker was guarding Butler almost always the last two games.. Not on the low post but outfront.. Butler was running the offense.. Butler had the run of the floor and could either make a good pass or score.. Stevens ran out of options must have settled on Butler being the lesser of the evils..
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:20:59 GMT -5
The problem got worse when the Celts had Kemba, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown on the court at the same time. Finally i agree.. Haywards fault that Brad decided to play no Bigs.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:21:02 GMT -5
Because there has to be a balance between offense, rebounding and defense. Hayward was an excellent offensive player. But time and again, I saw him getting dragged down in the post and scored over. Yes, he would collect clean rebounds but what about getting the difficult rebounds. He certainly did not play the other end of the court that well.
Additionally, between Tatum, Brown, Hayward and Kemba, how would you distribute shots and keep them happy. There was no Klay Thompson here to willingly sacrifice shots AND still be able to contribute effectively.
Replace Hayward with a better player at the defensive end, who is reasonable at the offensive end, and you have better balance. The scorers focus on scoring and the defenders focus on supporting defensive weaknesses and rebounding. If this yields a net positive, it is better.
Well right, I understand this logic. But was Hayward ruining the team complaining for shots? Seems like he didnt like it, but sacrificed while he was here? I dont think replacing him with Barnes is an upgrade at all. They play the same position and are the same size. That to me seems like a backwards move. Let alone from the fact he provided an offensive skill set that nobody on the team has Well see, that is an extreme position. Nobody is saying that Hayward was ruining the team.
Yes, I am aware that it seems like a backward move to you. But there are people here that don't agree with that. I also don't think that Kemba, Hayward, Tatum and Brown made for a good balance. Hayward was a good player no doubt. Barnes is not a same level talent replacement for Hayward but the Celts will have a better chemistry with him. Each player will be carrying a role that better fits with their best core skills. To see that as an improvement, you have to value chemistry as well and not just talent.
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Post by kyceltic on Jan 12, 2021 16:22:00 GMT -5
The problem got worse when the Celts had Kemba, Smart, Hayward, Tatum, and Brown on the court at the same time. Finally i agree.. Bingo!! This is an unbalanced team!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:23:46 GMT -5
Haywards fault that Brad decided to play no Bigs.
OK, I am starting to get your love for Hayward. You will not be able to see anything else through these Hayward colored glasses.
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:24:00 GMT -5
Well right, I understand this logic. But was Hayward ruining the team complaining for shots? Seems like he didnt like it, but sacrificed while he was here? I dont think replacing him with Barnes is an upgrade at all. They play the same position and are the same size. That to me seems like a backwards move. Let alone from the fact he provided an offensive skill set that nobody on the team has Well see, that is an extreme position. Nobody is saying that Hayward was ruining the team.
Yes, I am aware that it seems like a backward move to you. But there are people here that don't agree with that. I also don't think that Kemba, Hayward, Tatum and Brown made for a good balance. Hayward was a good player no doubt. Barnes is not a same level talent replacement for Hayward but the Celts will have a better chemistry with him. Each player will be carrying a role that better fits with their best core skills. To see that as an improvement, you have to value chemistry as well and not just talent.
Like I said, Barnes and Hayward play the same position and are the same size. You are just assuming that he accepts his 4th option role then as the upgrade?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:24:02 GMT -5
Haywards fault that Brad decided to play no Bigs. I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:26:03 GMT -5
Well see, that is an extreme position. Nobody is saying that Hayward was ruining the team.
Yes, I am aware that it seems like a backward move to you. But there are people here that don't agree with that. I also don't think that Kemba, Hayward, Tatum and Brown made for a good balance. Hayward was a good player no doubt. Barnes is not a same level talent replacement for Hayward but the Celts will have a better chemistry with him. Each player will be carrying a role that better fits with their best core skills. To see that as an improvement, you have to value chemistry as well and not just talent.
Like I said, Barnes and Hayward play the same position and are the same size. You are just assuming that he accepts his 4th option role then as the upgrade? Jeez, do you even read what I wrote? How much more explicitly do I have to lay out my position? I don't have as simple a rule as you are following: talent, talent, talent.
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:26:58 GMT -5
Haywards fault that Brad decided to play no Bigs.
OK, I am starting to get your love for Hayward. You will not be able to see anything else through these Hayward colored glasses. Nope, dont love Hayward at all. Just dont see how everything that went on was his fault and we just dismiss him and making the team worse. Why is it his fault that lineup didnt work? Couldnt Kemba or Smart go to the bench?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:27:29 GMT -5
Well see, that is an extreme position. Nobody is saying that Hayward was ruining the team.
Yes, I am aware that it seems like a backward move to you. But there are people here that don't agree with that. I also don't think that Kemba, Hayward, Tatum and Brown made for a good balance. Hayward was a good player no doubt. Barnes is not a same level talent replacement for Hayward but the Celts will have a better chemistry with him. Each player will be carrying a role that better fits with their best core skills. To see that as an improvement, you have to value chemistry as well and not just talent.
Like I said, Barnes and Hayward play the same position and are the same size. You are just assuming that he accepts his 4th option role then as the upgrade? OK, one more attempt: Hayward is NOT better than Barnes in EVERY aspect of the game. Does this help?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:27:42 GMT -5
Heads up bud..
3 guys here up Stevens anish so far all ya see is feet..
You just spoke with two..
Stevens never makes mistakes is the gospel for them....
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:28:36 GMT -5
Like I said, Barnes and Hayward play the same position and are the same size. You are just assuming that he accepts his 4th option role then as the upgrade? Jeez, do you even read what I wrote? How much more explicitly do I have to lay out my position? I don't have as simple a rule as you are following: talent, talent, talent. Yes I read it, you said the chemistry will be better and they are more balanced. I am not questioning the talent, if you noticed I left off Thad Young and A Gordon. Barnes to Hayward to me doesnt make sense if you are trying to actually get a defensive PF. They are the same size and play the same position
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:29:45 GMT -5
OK, I am starting to get your love for Hayward. You will not be able to see anything else through these Hayward colored glasses. Nope, dont love Hayward at all. Just dont see how everything that went on was his fault and we just dismiss him and making the team worse. Why is it his fault that lineup didnt work? Couldnt Kemba or Smart go to the bench? So who is making it Hayward's fault? Please elaborate. I have stated that all 4 of Kemba, Tatum, Brown and Hayward don't fit together.
I personally lost a lot of positive assessment for Hayward when he played like shit against Miami.
Now how are you making this long connection?
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:31:09 GMT -5
Like I said, Barnes and Hayward play the same position and are the same size. You are just assuming that he accepts his 4th option role then as the upgrade? OK, one more attempt: Hayward is NOT better than Barnes in EVERY aspect of the game. Does this help? I agree understand what youre saying. My point is if you want to get a legit PF in here, why get a guy that plays the same position and is the same size as Hayward? Just because hes better defensively doesnt make him a legit 4 right? Unless you still want to be small?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:32:48 GMT -5
Jeez, do you even read what I wrote? How much more explicitly do I have to lay out my position? I don't have as simple a rule as you are following: talent, talent, talent. Yes I read it, you said the chemistry will be better and they are more balanced. I am not questioning the talent, if you noticed I left off Thad Young and A Gordon. Barnes to Hayward to me doesnt make sense if you are trying to actually get a defensive PF. They are the same size and play the same position I case you were not reading other posts, Fierce labeled Thad Young as "my guy" because I was adding him into the mix when A Gordon and Barnes' names were thrown out.
OK, since you are reading my material with myopic glasses, Hayward is not better than ANY of Thad Young, A Gordon and Harrison Barnes in EVERY aspect of the game. That is why replacing Hayward with any is not just subtraction.
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:33:14 GMT -5
Nope, dont love Hayward at all. Just dont see how everything that went on was his fault and we just dismiss him and making the team worse. Why is it his fault that lineup didnt work? Couldnt Kemba or Smart go to the bench? So who is making it Hayward's fault? Please elaborate. I have stated that all 4 of Kemba, Tatum, Brown and Hayward don't fit together.
I personally lost a lot of positive assessment for Hayward when he played like shit against Miami.
Now how are you making this long connection?
I have been reading that the lineup of Kemba, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Hayward doesnt work and getting rid of Hayward for another PF is an upgrade. Why wouldnt the option to end a game with Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Theis work? Why do you need to go incredibly small?
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:34:31 GMT -5
Yes I read it, you said the chemistry will be better and they are more balanced. I am not questioning the talent, if you noticed I left off Thad Young and A Gordon. Barnes to Hayward to me doesnt make sense if you are trying to actually get a defensive PF. They are the same size and play the same position I case you were not reading other posts, Fierce labeled Thad Young as "my guy" because I was adding him into the mix when A Gordon and Barnes' names were thrown out.
OK, since you are reading my material with myopic glasses, Hayward is not better than ANY of Thad Young, A Gordon and Harrison Barnes in EVERY aspect of the game. That is why replacing Hayward with any is not just subtraction.
No my point was I understand your logic if you are replacing him with Young or Gordon as they have legit size for that position. Barnes to me doesnt fit that mold, all I am trying to say. He seems like a lateral move position wise with Hayward
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:39:53 GMT -5
I case you were not reading other posts, Fierce labeled Thad Young as "my guy" because I was adding him into the mix when A Gordon and Barnes' names were thrown out.
OK, since you are reading my material with myopic glasses, Hayward is not better than ANY of Thad Young, A Gordon and Harrison Barnes in EVERY aspect of the game. That is why replacing Hayward with any is not just subtraction.
No my point was I understand your logic if you are replacing him with Young or Gordon as they have legit size for that position. Barnes to me doesnt fit that mold, all I am trying to say. He seems like a lateral move position wise with Hayward Ah, OK. If you elaborate a little then I don't have draw inferences from single line questions. Yes, that is a legitimate observation that A Gordon and Thad Young may be better options than Barnes. As I have seen a good bit of Barnes I may have a higher opinion of him than your assessment.
As for not finishing games with Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Theis, I am assuming that you are talking about the Miami game? My analysis was simple, Hayward playing like shit on the offensive end becomes inferior to Smart in the lineup. I would have yanked him too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2021 16:43:12 GMT -5
Heads up bud.. 3 guys here up Stevens anish so far all ya see is feet.. You just spoke with two.. Stevens never makes mistakes is the gospel for them.... There goes the resident idiot. Unable to draw inferences from more than two observations.
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Post by solly on Jan 12, 2021 16:45:16 GMT -5
No my point was I understand your logic if you are replacing him with Young or Gordon as they have legit size for that position. Barnes to me doesnt fit that mold, all I am trying to say. He seems like a lateral move position wise with Hayward Ah, OK. If you elaborate a little then I don't have draw inferences from single line questions. Yes, that is a legitimate observation that A Gordon and Thad Young may be better options than Barnes. As I have seen a good bit of Barnes I may have a higher opinion of him than your assessment.
As for not finishing games with Kemba, Brown, Tatum, Hayward and Theis, I am assuming that you are talking about the Miami game? My analysis was simple, Hayward playing like shit on the offensive end becomes inferior to Smart in the lineup. I would have yanked him too.
Sure, I honestly thought me referencing Barnes' size and position in relation to Haywards was pretty clear, but I could see how it could be mistaken. The lineup I referenced was listed a while back as not working. Cant remember who wrote it, and I know Fierce has said this is the lineup of the Celtics 5 best players and it was bad all last year. The balance question that you both have, could be used against Fierce here. Why must you have your 5 "best" players on the court if you could easily bench one and become balanced? Especially to end the game? Thats where I come from blaming Hayward as all that is talked about is replacing him as he is redundant. I guess it doesnt matter now that hes gone, but I think last year the lineup was a coaching issue
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 12, 2021 16:56:56 GMT -5
Well see, that is an extreme position. Nobody is saying that Hayward was ruining the team.
Yes, I am aware that it seems like a backward move to you. But there are people here that don't agree with that. I also don't think that Kemba, Hayward, Tatum and Brown made for a good balance. Hayward was a good player no doubt. Barnes is not a same level talent replacement for Hayward but the Celts will have a better chemistry with him. Each player will be carrying a role that better fits with their best core skills. To see that as an improvement, you have to value chemistry as well and not just talent.
Like I said, Barnes and Hayward play the same position and are the same size. You are just assuming that he accepts his 4th option role then as the upgrade? No, its because Barnes has a PF next to his name and Hayward a SF. Even though Barnes, really, isnt a PF. They think he is bigger and more physical because of the letters. Here's something to chew on: Harrison Barnes gets like 0.3 blocks/game and like 4.5 boards/game. Aaron Gordon, he is not.
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