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Post by kyceltic on Mar 21, 2021 10:37:07 GMT -5
2011 Dallas Mavericks with Rick Carlise come to mind.. Dirk was 32 and declining and Kidd was 37 and a mirror of what he once was.. The key was 5 players who averaged double figures and two more who averaged about 9. Smart balanced baskeball which was instilled by the coach seems to be most driving force Carlise did a fine job with talent that was just slightly above average.. Is Carlise a great coach? Don't know.. Did he win without a lot of talent and without multible superstars? Yep Give me a minute i'll have some more examples where the coach made a difference.. If coaches don't matter why do we even have them.. Just to piss away money? .. My guess you have coaches and mascots confused.. I'll give you credit, that's about as close as anyone could get, but Dirk proved unstoppable and Jet was clutch as you can get, and LeBron was still in choke mode!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 10:43:37 GMT -5
2011 Dallas Mavericks with Rick Carlise come to mind.. Dirk was 32 and declining and Kidd was 37 and a mirror of what he once was.. The key was 5 players who averaged double figures and two more who averaged about 9. Smart balanced baskeball which was instilled by the coach seems to be most driving force Carlise did a fine job with talent that was just slightly above average.. Is Carlise a great coach? Don't know.. Did he win without a lot of talent and without multible superstars? Yep Give me a minute i'll have some more examples where the coach made a difference.. If coaches don't matter why do we even have them.. Just to piss away money? .. My guess you have coaches and mascots confused.. I'm about to go back to my old conspiracy theory self, but that year was a prime example for me of the NBA making up their mind it was Dallas's turn before the season even started. It was like all the refs were on watch, Dallas is winning this year. I remember Ray Allen got stripped from behind by jet no call that year it was so obvious. Dallas had been totally robbed a couple of years prior in the finals when they wanted to give it to Shaq. I always felt they had a makeup on the slate I can't help but say... All no Aluminum poisioning again? . Did the vaccine make ya want to raise your leg and pee on a tree to? I'm just getting down the barking routine after a week. Does the NBA do this every year? Or just when the top brass lays down a lot a money on bets and bribes the refs? Maybe we should just buy a ref or two..Probably be more.cost effective compared to a superstar
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 10:47:58 GMT -5
2011 Dallas Mavericks with Rick Carlise come to mind.. Dirk was 32 and declining and Kidd was 37 and a mirror of what he once was.. The key was 5 players who averaged double figures and two more who averaged about 9. Smart balanced baskeball which was instilled by the coach seems to be most driving force Carlise did a fine job with talent that was just slightly above average.. Is Carlise a great coach? Don't know.. Did he win without a lot of talent and without multible superstars? Yep Give me a minute i'll have some more examples where the coach made a difference.. If coaches don't matter why do we even have them.. Just to piss away money? .. My guess you have coaches and mascots confused.. I'll give you credit, that's about as close as anyone could get, but Dirk proved unstoppable and Jet was clutch as you can get, and LeBron was still in choke mode!! There is no support for an argument '' The Coach doesn't matter'.. There is a question on how much. . You know that KY..
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Post by kyceltic on Mar 21, 2021 11:30:31 GMT -5
2011 Dallas Mavericks with Rick Carlise come to mind.. Dirk was 32 and declining and Kidd was 37 and a mirror of what he once was.. The key was 5 players who averaged double figures and two more who averaged about 9. Smart balanced baskeball which was instilled by the coach seems to be most driving force Carlise did a fine job with talent that was just slightly above average.. Is Carlise a great coach? Don't know.. Did he win without a lot of talent and without multible superstars? Yep Give me a minute i'll have some more examples where the coach made a difference.. If coaches don't matter why do we even have them.. Just to piss away money? .. My guess you have coaches and mascots confused.. I'll give you credit, that's about as close as anyone could get, but Dirk proved unstoppable and Jet was clutch as you can get, and LeBron was still in choke mode!! Seattle supersonics 1979!!
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Post by jdm894g on Mar 21, 2021 11:40:25 GMT -5
Pistons ‘04
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Post by DaCeltics on Mar 21, 2021 12:39:15 GMT -5
Jim O'Brien took over the same exact team as Rick Pitino and got more production out of the players.
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Post by DaCeltics on Mar 21, 2021 12:40:54 GMT -5
How do we know Rick Carlisle isn't elevating Luka?
It's the only coach he's had and Luka became a name under that coach.
At this point Solly you should probably just come here and get an education and not spout ignorance.
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Post by sfbosfan on Mar 21, 2021 12:47:15 GMT -5
Many comments about Doc. I’m am not a fan. He won only one championship and did it with our big 3, KG, PP & Allen in 2008. Had some great clubs with the Clippers but the nemesis at that time were the Warriors.
Our nemesis has been LeBron and was the reason Cleveland, Miami & the Lakers have won championships with 1-2 other super stars. Davis is the current one. He has had his way with the Celtics. Only time we beat him was in 2008 Eastern finals and it took us 7 games vs. Cleveland and we had 3 Stars…KG, PP, & Allen and they only LeBron. And he still fought like hell almost alone as in game 7 he scored 45 points while Pierce scored 41. I wonder if a vote was taken who was better, James or LeBron who would win?
We went on to beat the Lakers who didn’t have 3 players of dominance in 6 games for the title. Our Big 3 with Doc as couch won only 1 title. This my favorite Big 3...Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish, and the Celtics won the 1981, 1984, and 1986 championships.
I have hated the Lakers going back to the rivalries with with Bird & Magic. Used to go to Golden State games when they were not so good and still enjoyed hearing “beat LA, Beat LA”. But the 2010 loss was the most painful loss to the Lakers. I am beating a dead horse as I have posted the following a few times and maybe opening wounds for some of you who may feel as I do. As I said, I am not a Doc lover. We had a 13 pt lead end of Qtr #3 game 7 ...2010. Yup, I know we lost Perkins in Game 6 and in the finals they got the egregious difference of 42 foul shots to our 18 and just 21 in critical Qtr #4. We had two 7 footers, Rashid Wallace and Garnett, but they seemed, especially Sheed, more interested in shooting 3s as we were losing the rebound advantage substantially, especially in the 4th Qtr. We had PP & Allen to do that with Rondo driving to the basket. They killed us with reb advantage 53 to 40 (I mean 13 extra chances) and only shot 38% and we did 42% but the extra chances killed us. Gasol schooled KG out rebounding him 18 to 3. What else was painful was that Kobe(GOD rest him) shoots 6 for 24 or 25% and was MVP. He’d been a goat had they lost. Sorry if any you feel I continue to cry about that game. Again, beating dead horse, it was because of the foul shot difference true but also because we were out rebounded.
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Post by cole on Mar 21, 2021 12:52:55 GMT -5
I'm about to go back to my old conspiracy theory self, but that year was a prime example for me of the NBA making up their mind it was Dallas's turn before the season even started. It was like all the refs were on watch, Dallas is winning this year. I remember Ray Allen got stripped from behind by jet no call that year it was so obvious. Dallas had been totally robbed a couple of years prior in the finals when they wanted to give it to Shaq. I always felt they had a makeup on the slate I can't help but say... All no Aluminum poisioning again? . Did the vaccine make ya want to raise your leg and pee on a tree to? I'm just getting down the barking routine after a week. Does the NBA do this every year? Or just when the top brass lays down a lot a money on bets and bribes the refs? Maybe we should just buy a ref or two..Probably be more.cost effective compared to a superstar I don't see it like I used to. Seemed to lessen under silver or around that time
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Post by elvissurfs on Mar 21, 2021 13:28:22 GMT -5
Many comments about Doc. I’m am not a fan. He won only one championship and did it with our big 3, KG, PP & Allen in 2008. Had some great clubs with the Clippers but the nemesis at that time were the Warriors. Our nemesis has been LeBron and was the reason Cleveland, Miami & the Lakers have won championships with 1-2 other super stars. Davis is the current one. He has had his way with the Celtics. Only time we beat him was in 2008 Eastern finals and it took us 7 games vs. Cleveland and we had 3 Stars…KG, PP, & Allen and they only LeBron. And he still fought like hell almost alone as in game 7 he scored 45 points while Pierce scored 41. I wonder if a vote was taken who was better, James or LeBron who would win? We went on to beat the Lakers who didn’t have 3 players of dominance in 6 games for the title. Our Big 3 with Doc as couch won only 1 title. This my favorite Big 3...Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish, and the Celtics won the 1981, 1984, and 1986 championships. I have hated the Lakers going back to the rivalries with with Bird & Magic. Used to go to Golden State games when they were not so good and still enjoyed hearing “beat LA, Beat LA”. But the 2010 loss was the most painful loss to the Lakers. I am beating a dead horse as I have posted the following a few times and maybe opening wounds for some of you who may feel as I do. As I said, I am not a Doc lover. We had a 13 pt lead end of Qtr #3 game 7 ...2010. Yup, I know we lost Perkins in Game 6 and in the finals they got the egregious difference of 42 foul shots to our 18 and just 21 in critical Qtr #4. We had two 7 footers, Rashid Wallace and Garnett, but they seemed, especially Sheed, more interested in shooting 3s as we were losing the rebound advantage substantially, especially in the 4th Qtr. We had PP & Allen to do that with Rondo driving to the basket. They killed us with reb advantage 53 to 40 (I mean 13 extra chances) and only shot 38% and we did 42% but the extra chances killed us. Gasol schooled KG out rebounding him 18 to 3. What else was painful was that Kobe(GOD rest him) shoots 6 for 24 or 25% and was MVP. He’d been a goat had they lost. Sorry if any you feel I continue to cry about that game. Again, beating dead horse, it was because of the foul shot difference true but also because we were out rebounded. And to top it off, Bill Russell was sitting courtside and had to hand off the trophy to LA...killed me...
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Post by DaCeltics on Mar 21, 2021 13:44:45 GMT -5
Many comments about Doc. I’m am not a fan. He won only one championship and did it with our big 3, KG, PP & Allen in 2008. Had some great clubs with the Clippers but the nemesis at that time were the Warriors. Our nemesis has been LeBron and was the reason Cleveland, Miami & the Lakers have won championships with 1-2 other super stars. Davis is the current one. He has had his way with the Celtics. Only time we beat him was in 2008 Eastern finals and it took us 7 games vs. Cleveland and we had 3 Stars…KG, PP, & Allen and they only LeBron. And he still fought like hell almost alone as in game 7 he scored 45 points while Pierce scored 41. I wonder if a vote was taken who was better, James or LeBron who would win? We went on to beat the Lakers who didn’t have 3 players of dominance in 6 games for the title. Our Big 3 with Doc as couch won only 1 title. This my favorite Big 3...Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parish, and the Celtics won the 1981, 1984, and 1986 championships. I have hated the Lakers going back to the rivalries with with Bird & Magic. Used to go to Golden State games when they were not so good and still enjoyed hearing “beat LA, Beat LA”. But the 2010 loss was the most painful loss to the Lakers. I am beating a dead horse as I have posted the following a few times and maybe opening wounds for some of you who may feel as I do. As I said, I am not a Doc lover. We had a 13 pt lead end of Qtr #3 game 7 ...2010. Yup, I know we lost Perkins in Game 6 and in the finals they got the egregious difference of 42 foul shots to our 18 and just 21 in critical Qtr #4. We had two 7 footers, Rashid Wallace and Garnett, but they seemed, especially Sheed, more interested in shooting 3s as we were losing the rebound advantage substantially, especially in the 4th Qtr. We had PP & Allen to do that with Rondo driving to the basket. They killed us with reb advantage 53 to 40 (I mean 13 extra chances) and only shot 38% and we did 42% but the extra chances killed us. Gasol schooled KG out rebounding him 18 to 3. What else was painful was that Kobe(GOD rest him) shoots 6 for 24 or 25% and was MVP. He’d been a goat had they lost. Sorry if any you feel I continue to cry about that game. Again, beating dead horse, it was because of the foul shot difference true but also because we were out rebounded. That summer I said go after Artest with both barrels and instead they signed Rasheed. In the end it's Ron Artest that buried us with that big three pointer. He tortured Pierce all series too. My theory was if you can't beat them join them and we couldn't beat Ron Artest one on one. I wanted him off the market! He went to exactly the wrong team which is what I feared.
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Post by sfbosfan on Mar 21, 2021 13:52:31 GMT -5
Comment above about Bill Russell needing to give them the trophy. As old as he was he’d been better in the post disrupting their 53 rebounds to our 40. Yup, I remember Artest’s 3 and it was a dagger. Allen missed 2-3 threes with 3-4 minutes to go and maybe just 1 would have kept the score tied and we could have won. Heck, they only won by 4 pts. Bird and Magic had many battles and were compared frequently...who was better? Of course, being partial I say Bird. But PP and Kobe also had a rivalry and were being compared. OK, call me a traitor but I think Kobe was better.
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Post by elvissurfs on Mar 21, 2021 13:56:15 GMT -5
Comment above about Bill Russell needing to give them the trophy. As old as he was he’d been better in the post disrupting their 53 rebounds to our 40. Yup, I remember Artest’s 3 and it was a dagger. Allen missed 2-3 threes with 3-4 minutes to go and maybe just 1 would have kept the score tied and we could have won. Heck, they only won by 4 pts. Bird and Magic had many battles and were compared frequently...who was better? Of course, being partial I say Bird. But PP and Kobe also had a rivalry and were being compared. OK, call me a traitor but I think Kobe was better. Yeah, Kobe might have been better, but I liked Pierce hecka more...he bled Celtic green...Auerbach made him a believer...
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Post by DaCeltics on Mar 21, 2021 14:00:28 GMT -5
Comment above about Bill Russell needing to give them the trophy. As old as he was he’d been better in the post disrupting their 53 rebounds to our 40. Yup, I remember Artest’s 3 and it was a dagger. Allen missed 2-3 threes with 3-4 minutes to go and maybe just 1 would have kept the score tied and we could have won. Heck, they only won by 4 pts. Bird and Magic had many battles and were compared frequently...who was better? Of course, being partial I say Bird. But PP and Kobe also had a rivalry and were being compared. OK, call me a traitor but I think Kobe was better. Kobe was better but I liked Pierce better
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Post by kyceltic on Mar 21, 2021 14:01:01 GMT -5
Comment above about Bill Russell needing to give them the trophy. As old as he was he’d been better in the post disrupting their 53 rebounds to our 40. Yup, I remember Artest’s 3 and it was a dagger. Allen missed 2-3 threes with 3-4 minutes to go and maybe just 1 would have kept the score tied and we could have won. Heck, they only won by 4 pts. Bird and Magic had many battles and were compared frequently...who was better? Of course, being partial I say Bird. But PP and Kobe also had a rivalry and were being compared. OK, call me a traitor but I think Kobe was better. Not even close Kobe was much better!! We could have taken Kobe, but drafted Antoine instead!
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Post by solly on Mar 21, 2021 17:06:54 GMT -5
How do we know Rick Carlisle isn't elevating Luka? It's the only coach he's had and Luka became a name under that coach. At this point Solly you should probably just come here and get an education and not spout ignorance. No idea how that’s ignorant. How is Luka and the Mavs being elevated? They’re 21-19 and aren’t going to win a championship anytime soon. Like I said what are Doc, Pop, Kerr, etc without their players? You have yet to answer that. You want a guy in Stevens fired for going to to ECFs and losing, so just put yourself in a Jazz fans shoes, or a Spurs fan or heat fan, or almost everybody else. You’d want the coach fired. At the end of the day no coach will be good enough for you
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Post by solly on Mar 21, 2021 17:10:31 GMT -5
Jim O'Brien took over the same exact team as Rick Pitino and got more production out of the players. And never won anything. At the end of the day you need superstar players to take you anywhere, which is the point of the argument. Change the coach, the same thing is gonna happen. Nobody cares Jim Obrien made it to the ECF and got smoked. It’s a double standard. Fire Stevens but praise another guy for being worse.
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Post by solly on Mar 21, 2021 17:21:45 GMT -5
Well we can ignore that Dirk is probably one of the 50 greatest players ever. And he was in his prime. So that fits the mold. For some reason he’s not elevating Luka though This wasn’t a great example. Lots of talent, one of the greatest players ever and multiple HOFers. Dirk and Kidd were both past their prime and declining. Kidd was 37 way past his prime and only played one more year before retiring if my memory is correct.. We have three so called top 50 players or soon to be top 50.. Brown Tatum and Walker and we are playing less than .500 ball.. I disagree on the caliber of player of Tatum brown and Kemba. They aren’t top 50 players ever or really ever close. They are barely top 15-20 players in the league today, especially Kemba. And dirk was most definitely in his prime, had an unbelievable playoff run
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Post by puddin on Mar 21, 2021 18:06:43 GMT -5
Jim O'Brien took over the same exact team as Rick Pitino and got more production out of the players. And never won anything. At the end of the day you need superstar players to take you anywhere, which is the point of the argument. Change the coach, the same thing is gonna happen. Nobody cares Jim Obrien made it to the ECF and got smoked. It’s a double standard. Fire Stevens but praise another guy for being worse. W/O mentioning names, according to unnamed sources...
...somebody keeps moving the doggone goal posts.
And it isn't our former flip-flopp'n, double talk'n,
relentlessly troll'n, all time forum favorite fiercy anymore!
Anybody?
Pud
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Post by solly on Mar 21, 2021 18:48:13 GMT -5
And never won anything. At the end of the day you need superstar players to take you anywhere, which is the point of the argument. Change the coach, the same thing is gonna happen. Nobody cares Jim Obrien made it to the ECF and got smoked. It’s a double standard. Fire Stevens but praise another guy for being worse. W/O mentioning names, according to unnamed sources...
...somebody keeps moving the doggone goal posts.
And it isn't our former flip-flopp'n, double talk'n,
relentlessly troll'n, all time forum favorite fiercy anymore!
Anybody?
Pud
Pud, please explain how the goal posts are being moved here. My overarching point this entire time has been that the coach only goes as far as the players take them, especially to a championship level. No coach is able to consistently make teams into contenders simply by coaching style/schemes or structure. And no coach wins without truly great players. There’s a million examples of this. Pop being a perfect one. Steve Kerr being a perfect one, doc rivers being a perfect one. The list goes on
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 19:04:27 GMT -5
W/O mentioning names, according to unnamed sources...
...somebody keeps moving the doggone goal posts.
And it isn't our former flip-flopp'n, double talk'n,
relentlessly troll'n, all time forum favorite fiercy anymore!
Anybody?
Pud
Pud, please explain how the goal posts are being moved here. My overarching point this entire time has been that the coach only goes as far as the players take them, especially to a championship level. No coach is able to consistently make teams into contenders simply by coaching style/schemes or structure. And no coach wins without truly great players. There’s a million examples of this. Pop being a perfect one. Steve Kerr being a perfect one, doc rivers being a perfect one. The list goes on Folks here are upset with the team and looking for a scapegoat. So it is the coach. I have been saying for a while that I don’t like the way Tatum has been playing. Glad to finally hear the media and the coach calling out the players. Although the terms used are “Celtics core’” and “lack of togetherness “. Would the players change faster with an “in your face” coach? I don’t know. Every style has a negative side as well.
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Post by elvissurfs on Mar 21, 2021 19:24:56 GMT -5
Pud, please explain how the goal posts are being moved here. My overarching point this entire time has been that the coach only goes as far as the players take them, especially to a championship level. No coach is able to consistently make teams into contenders simply by coaching style/schemes or structure. And no coach wins without truly great players. There’s a million examples of this. Pop being a perfect one. Steve Kerr being a perfect one, doc rivers being a perfect one. The list goes on Folks here are upset with the team and looking for a scapegoat. So it is the coach. I have been saying for a while that I don’t like the way Tatum has been playing. Glad to finally hear the media and the coach calling out the players. Although the terms used are “Celtics core’” and “lack of togetherness “. Would the players change faster with an “in your face” coach? I don’t know. Every style has a negative side as well. Rondo could have controlled this bunch...the guy is a heck of a ball distributor...and he has that veteran stature...
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Post by solly on Mar 21, 2021 19:27:34 GMT -5
Pud, please explain how the goal posts are being moved here. My overarching point this entire time has been that the coach only goes as far as the players take them, especially to a championship level. No coach is able to consistently make teams into contenders simply by coaching style/schemes or structure. And no coach wins without truly great players. There’s a million examples of this. Pop being a perfect one. Steve Kerr being a perfect one, doc rivers being a perfect one. The list goes on Folks here are upset with the team and looking for a scapegoat. So it is the coach. I have been saying for a while that I don’t like the way Tatum has been playing. Glad to finally hear the media and the coach calling out the players. Although the terms used are “Celtics core’” and “lack of togetherness “. Would the players change faster with an “in your face” coach? I don’t know. Every style has a negative side as well. I agree with that, I just think It’s a misguided effort to blame a coach in this league. Could they be marginally better with somebody else? Maybe, but this group isn’t winning a title for a while even if Red rises from the dead. Players have to improve at the top of the roster to take the next step
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2021 19:46:19 GMT -5
Folks here are upset with the team and looking for a scapegoat. So it is the coach. I have been saying for a while that I don’t like the way Tatum has been playing. Glad to finally hear the media and the coach calling out the players. Although the terms used are “Celtics core’” and “lack of togetherness “. Would the players change faster with an “in your face” coach? I don’t know. Every style has a negative side as well. Rondo could have controlled this bunch...the guy is a heck of a ball distributor...and he has that veteran stature... I think that all that is secondary to Tatum deciding what is needed and what kind of a player he is going to be. Rest falls behind that.
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