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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 12:28:40 GMT -5
The Heat, right now, have "more" better players. Six players in double figures, and we had three. I disagree. The Heat have a more balanced team. But there's just no way Herro and Duncan are better than any of the top 4 players of the Celts. It's just a case of the Heat having a better game plan right now. Brad hasn't figured out how to beat the Zone yet.
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 12:30:11 GMT -5
This is not good: Boston Celtics’ Marcus Smart and Jaylen Brown had a heated confrontation inside that locker room after the Game 2 loss and needed to be separated by teammates, multiple sources told The Athletic. Smart, who is widely regarded as Boston’s emotional leader, was heard shouting inside the postgame locker room after the Celtics’ loss to Miami. – via Shams Charania @ The Athletic I think it's good for the Celts. It's time they stop smiling and get angry. They need to smack the Heat in the mouth.
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Post by petey62 on Sept 18, 2020 12:39:31 GMT -5
Celts have nothing to lose now. They might as well give it their all and maybe a minor miracle might happen. It's still 0-2. One win could turn things around. I don't think the Heat have better players.
The Celts just don't have the tools to counter the Zone.When the 3-point shots were falling for the Cs, they had a big lead. It's when the Celts start missing 3s that the Heat take control of the game. Fierce, you make an excellent point that one win could turn things around. I hope that win comes tomorrow night. But the Heat have better players. Who believes Tatum is better than Butler or Kemba is better than Dragic or Brown is better than Adebayo or Smart is better than Duncan Robinson or Maker is better than Herro? When you look at Butler and his FOURTEEN points last night yet he was as impactful to the Heat winning as anybody on that team. He doesn't have to score 25 for the Heat to win. And Dragic and Adebayo are CLEARLY the two best players (judged through their play) in the first two games. Right now, the best Celtics player is the one, the only one, who is playing with heart, Marcus Smart. We have players who WILL BECOME superstars one day if they stay on their current trajectory, but again through their play, they are a long way from being there now. Fierce, this series is so far from being about the Celtics inability to solve the zone defense. You are partly correct that we don't have the tools. IMO, the Celtics lack the maturity and skillset to compete with a team like Miami, both offensively and defensively.
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Post by petey62 on Sept 18, 2020 12:47:27 GMT -5
Guys, being a better individual player means nothing when you don't play like the better player. Folks may believe Tatum is better than Butler, but Butler is clearly playing better than Tatum in this series.
If Kemba is better than Dragic, then play better than him. It's as simple as that.
Who cares if Tatum, Walker, Brown and Smart can beat Duncan Robinson or Tyler Herro in a one-on-one game in the gym if they cannot outplay them IN A GAME. That's where it counts......IN THE GAME.
You can argue that the three BEST PLAYERS in this series are Butler, Dragic and Adebayo. Period.
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Post by cole on Sept 18, 2020 12:51:09 GMT -5
They are an older, more experienced team and better built too. Plus hayward and brown hurt doesnt help
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 13:00:45 GMT -5
Celts have nothing to lose now. They might as well give it their all and maybe a minor miracle might happen. It's still 0-2. One win could turn things around. I don't think the Heat have better players.
The Celts just don't have the tools to counter the Zone.When the 3-point shots were falling for the Cs, they had a big lead. It's when the Celts start missing 3s that the Heat take control of the game. Fierce, you make an excellent point that one win could turn things around. I hope that win comes tomorrow night. But the Heat have better players. Who believes Tatum is better than Butler or Kemba is better than Dragic or Brown is better than Adebayo or Smart is better than Duncan Robinson or Maker is better than Herro? When you look at Butler and his FOURTEEN points last night yet he was as impactful to the Heat winning as anybody on that team. He doesn't have to score 25 for the Heat to win. And Dragic and Adebayo are CLEARLY the two best players (judged through their play) in the first two games. Right now, the best Celtics player is the one, the only one, who is playing with heart, Marcus Smart. We have players who WILL BECOME superstars one day if they stay on their current trajectory, but again through their play, they are a long way from being there now. Fierce, this series is so far from being about the Celtics inability to solve the zone defense. You are partly correct that we don't have the tools. IMO, the Celtics lack the maturity and skillset to compete with a team like Miami, both offensively and defensively. I agree on the maturity part. Celts clearly need more time to mature. But here's the thing, Celts are good enough to beat the Heat if they can generate enough offense against the Zone. Every time the Heat use a Zone D, the Celts become stagnant. It's like they don't know what to do. With all the shortcomings of the Celts, I think if they can score against the Zone, they will be right back in this series. All the games have been close even if the Celts are making mistakes or missing shots. Things like maturity and skill set cannot be corrected at this point in time, Pete. But the inability to generate offense against the Zone can be remedied.
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 13:02:42 GMT -5
Guys, being a better individual player means nothing when you don't play like the better player. Folks may believe Tatum is better than Butler, but Butler is clearly playing better than Tatum in this series. If Kemba is better than Dragic, then play better than him. It's as simple as that. Who cares if Tatum, Walker, Brown and Smart can beat Duncan Robinson or Tyler Herro in a one-on-one game in the gym if they cannot outplay them IN A GAME. That's where it counts......IN THE GAME. You can argue that the three BEST PLAYERS in this series are Butler, Dragic and Adebayo. Period. True. All I'm saying is the Heat don't have better individual players than the Celts. The Heat are just better collectively. But there's no way Ainge will trade Tatum, Brown, Hayward, and Kemba for Butler, Dragic, Herro, and Robinson.
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Post by petey62 on Sept 18, 2020 13:09:25 GMT -5
Fierce, if the Celtics had the ability to generate offense against a zone defense, they would have solved that by now. What will happen in the next day or two that will allow them to solve that zone?
But, I sure hope you're right because we sure need something to kick start a win.
Bottom line, we gotta win tomorrow, just like Toronto beat us in game 3 after being down 2-0.
I simply believe we're just about done because of HOW we've lost the first two games. Also, Spoelstra hasn't lost a series after being up 2-0, EVER.
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Post by kyceltic on Sept 18, 2020 13:09:45 GMT -5
First, I wish Brown had knocked Smart into next week! I'm tired of his terrible shot selection, at the most crucial points in games! Defense you say, who has he guarded in this series, and stopped? Answer no one! We need OFFENSE!! Our only chance is if Hayward can come back in game 3 and give us some scoring and be a calming influence! Any time Smart takes more shots than Tatum and Brown, we're gonna get what we got last night! RWill needs to play at least 20 minutes, hell he can't be any worse than Theis has been so far! It's a pity Carsen Edwards can't shoot, we need OFFENSE from the bench!
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Post by petey62 on Sept 18, 2020 13:17:48 GMT -5
Fierce, I believe the Heat DO have better individual players than the Celtics. But, again, who cares and how to you measure that? Who on the Celtics is better than Adebayo? Top to bottom, the Heat have better players.
Just because Ainge wouldn't trade these guys is not validation for their talent level. When you look at this Celtics team, you can make an argument that Ainge had done a poor job constructing it for a championship run by putting all his eggs in the basket of 4 very good starters and Smart as 6 man. That's all we have!
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Post by drewski6 on Sept 18, 2020 13:20:16 GMT -5
I just want to go on record and say I completely disagree that the Celtics need a miracle to win game 3. Vegas has us -3. Granted we've been favored both games this series and lost. But I would estimate that the chances of us winning game 3 are 55%.
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Post by drewski6 on Sept 18, 2020 13:20:58 GMT -5
Fierce, I believe the Heat DO have better individual players than the Celtics. But, again, who cares and how to you measure that? Who on the Celtics is better than Adebayo? Top to bottom, the Heat have better players. Just because Ainge wouldn't trade these guys is not validation for their talent level. When you look at this Celtics team, you can make an argument that Ainge had done a poor job constructing it for a championship run by putting all his eggs in the basket of 4 very good starters and Smart as 6 man. That's all we have! I agree. We sould have gotten more tools for Stevens' toolbox. We also could have used more depth.
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Post by drewski6 on Sept 18, 2020 13:21:35 GMT -5
And I 100% believe that Marcus Smart is a better player than Duncan Robinson. Duncan Robinson does one thing and is a defensive liability.
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Post by drewski6 on Sept 18, 2020 13:23:12 GMT -5
And I dont get why Smart is directing his anger at Brown. Brown was hustling at the end. Brown made 2 huge 3's in crunch time. Sure, he missed that open one in the corner - but it hit the back rim, so it wasnt way off. Cant expect him to hit all of them.
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Post by drewski6 on Sept 18, 2020 13:24:30 GMT -5
I never thought Tatum was better than Butler. Tatum is better than Siakam, sure. But Butler is on the cusp of being very good and elite. Siakam is on the cusp between good and very good. Not the same.
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 13:30:30 GMT -5
Fierce, I believe the Heat DO have better individual players than the Celtics. But, again, who cares and how to you measure that? Who on the Celtics is better than Adebayo? Top to bottom, the Heat have better players. Just because Ainge wouldn't trade these guys is not validation for their talent level. When you look at this Celtics team, you can make an argument that Ainge had done a poor job constructing it for a championship run by putting all his eggs in the basket of 4 very good starters and Smart as 6 man. That's all we have! That's because Ainge was playing the long game before the bubble. Proof of this is Ainge never made a move to improve the team. To be honest, if the playoffs started, this Celtics team would've been eliminated in the 2nd round. But the pandemic happened. Jaylen improved a lot since March. The Celtic defense was better. And the injured players, Kemba and Theis, recovered. Nobody saw Covid-19 coming. I'm sure if Ainge knew this would happen, he would've traded the picks for Bertans. Also, Ainge's master plan was shattered when AD refused to come to Boston. Remember, the Pelicans told Ainge that they will not trade AD to the Lakers at the trade deadline of 2018-19. They said they will wait for the season to be over so that Boston can trade for AD. After AD to Boston was no longer possible, Ainge opted for a quasi rebuild and signed Kemba to a max contract. That's the reason why we're stuck with 4 very good starters and Smart, Pete.
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 13:32:33 GMT -5
I never thought Tatum was better than Butler. Tatum is better than Siakam, sure. But Butler is on the cusp of being very good and elite. Siakam is on the cusp between good and very good. Not the same. Let's not forget that Butler just turned 31 and he's now a 9-year veteran. Tatum is just 22 years old and on his 3rd year in the league. We saw numerous times Jimmy failing in the playoffs before this season. To be successful in the playoffs, you have to have the maturity and experience. Jayson and Jaylen are lacking that right now.
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 13:35:03 GMT -5
Fierce, I believe the Heat DO have better individual players than the Celtics. But, again, who cares and how to you measure that? Who on the Celtics is better than Adebayo? Top to bottom, the Heat have better players. Just because Ainge wouldn't trade these guys is not validation for their talent level. When you look at this Celtics team, you can make an argument that Ainge had done a poor job constructing it for a championship run by putting all his eggs in the basket of 4 very good starters and Smart as 6 man. That's all we have! I agree. We sould have gotten more tools for Stevens' toolbox. We also could have used more depth. Ainge didn't think Celts were good enough last February and held on to the assets. Nobody knew the virus would come along. Celts were really not that good back in February. And Kemba and Theis were hurting. If Ainge something like this would happen, I'm sure he would have traded the picks for a roster upgrade.
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Post by fierce on Sept 18, 2020 13:36:14 GMT -5
I just want to go on record and say I completely disagree that the Celtics need a miracle to win game 3. Vegas has us -3. Granted we've been favored both games this series and lost. But I would estimate that the chances of us winning game 3 are 55%. We don't need a miracle to win Game 3, but we need a minor miracle to win the series. Game 3 is very winnable. The question is can the Celts win more games after Game 3?
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Post by petey62 on Sept 18, 2020 13:42:51 GMT -5
I never thought Tatum was better than Butler. Tatum is better than Siakam, sure. But Butler is on the cusp of being very good and elite. Siakam is on the cusp between good and very good. Not the same. Let's not forget that Butler just turned 31 and he's now a 9-year veteran. Tatum is just 22 years old and on his 3rd year in the league. We saw numerous times Jimmy failing in the playoffs before this season. To be successful in the playoffs, you have to have the maturity and experience. Jayson and Jaylen are lacking that right now. Fierce, you cannot tie age to talent level. Sure, Tatum is 22 and he will become a superstar with the playoff resume to prove it. But, he too, has failed in the playoffs before this season. Age and all that aside, NOBODY at this point would take Butler over Tatum. But a significant factor in this is Tatum's age and the fact that, by the time he's been 9 years in, who knows what accomplishments he'll have attained.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Sept 18, 2020 14:01:46 GMT -5
My comment, of course, started this. So, it's time for me to chime in.
MIA - Bam, Dragic, Butler, Crowder, Robinson, Herro, Iggy, KO,
BOS - Tatum, Kemba, Brown, Smart. Theis, Semi, Wanamaker, Kanter, GWill.
Right now, today, their stars are better than our stars, their rookie is better than our rookies, their bench is better than our bench, and they play as one team.
They have MORE better players than we do, today, I stand by my comment. Even when (if) GH returns, they have RELIABLE people on their bench - Herro, Iggy, KO..........and we don't. It's not about individual players, or potential, it's about right now they are better than us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 14:06:45 GMT -5
And I dont get why Smart is directing his anger at Brown. Brown was hustling at the end. Brown made 2 huge 3's in crunch time. Sure, he missed that open one in the corner - but it hit the back rim, so it wasnt way off. Cant expect him to hit all of them. I believe that this was a rant by Marcus against getting called out in Game 1. Not finding the open man under the basket and shooting some crazy 3s in Q4. He saw that other screwed up in Game 2 and decided to let people know.
Hopefully, they move past this. This is still a series provided somebody can inspire them to come to play. And Tatum stops reading his own press.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Sept 18, 2020 14:08:26 GMT -5
It will be incumbent on Danny to build our bench. RWill and Romeo were hurt a lot this year, and Carsen did not perform as hoped. I know that was the plan. Replacing Green, Semi and Poirier will be key. And not with rookies. As I previously stated, with RWill, Romeo and GWill, we will have a nice young core to build on. Wanamaker is a FA..do with that whatever you like. GH will no doubt opt in, they will re-sign Theis and Tatum.........and Kanter will probably go. Lots of work to do
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Post by hedleylamarr on Sept 18, 2020 14:08:43 GMT -5
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Post by hedleylamarr on Sept 18, 2020 14:10:56 GMT -5
Greek Freak is MVP again
Did LeBron get robbed?
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