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Post by puddin on Jan 23, 2018 10:13:55 GMT -5
Pud I wish we had held onto him................but not at $15 million and at the risk of not signing Hayward. As awkward and slow of foot Oly was, he's been our best bench player over the past few years. Again, but not at $15 million. I also believe guys like Zeller and Jerebko were decent bench fillers and contributors, much more than what's on the bench now. I mean Jerebko actually started some playoff games last season if I remember. Not sure we'll get that from any of the current bench guys. I recall you lamenting the loss of Oly w/o qualifications or concerns about salary. Maybe I missed it. Maybe it was unspoken. Awkward, slow and more importantly, he played soft defense too.. but he could hit 3pt's. Missing Oly... while also minus an injured Hayward has certainly made Oly's absence a good bit keener. We'll see what sorts of salary demands Smart makes... but his defense is simply off the charts.... and defense needs to be the Celtic trademark. Pud
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Post by puddin on Jan 23, 2018 10:19:59 GMT -5
How many teams has Smart torched this year.? ![](//storage.proboards.com/6508959/thumbnailer/kfPFJCzDkCUGAoCqZGgS.png) Ask James F-N Harden, amigo! Should we be showcasing Smart or showboating him at this point? Pud
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 10:38:32 GMT -5
So you'd trade for Monroe, then let him walk at the end of the year? Just trying to understand here, not being a jerk. Walk? If not mistaken, he'd come with Bird-Rts if waived. The C's would then have up to $8.6MM with the DPE to offer for the remainder of the season if he signs here as a FA. If he works out he could be resigned over the cap with those bird rts. Operative word is "could".........Kyrie is coming due after next season, I believe. He makes 17 mill this year. Would he sign for less? I don't think we can afford him after this year, hence my use of the word "walk." I think Monroe would be a rental. So, in my mind, it is not worth it, unless it's Smart straight up...........and, would you do that if you were PHO?
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 10:51:46 GMT -5
So you'd trade for Monroe, then let him walk at the end of the year? Just trying to understand here, not being a jerk. If the traded Celtic player is Smart, then yes. I'd rather have Monroe this season and he walks (or we sign him) in the offseason MORE than I prefer keeping Smart and letting him walk because he'll be asking for way too much than the Celtics would be willing to pay him. Somebody is going to pay Smart big bucks just like someone paid Oly big bucks. And the Celtics would be fools to pay Smart's asking price. I think the Celtics can only afford one insanely inconsistent bench guard who plays great defense and I prefer that be Rozier. Plus I believe Monroe is a solid inside scoring threat, again, something we have not had in years. Having an inside threat like that allows for more space for our perimeter players. And I know you're not being a jerk..... I would do that trade. Smart for Monroe......yes. However, I don't think PHO would. Nor do I think DA has much interest in Monroe. Smart plays over 30 mins a game. He brings intangibles. I also think Smart would only be "good" for us. So, I would trade Smart for Monroe, but I'm also okay keeping him, or trading him for a guy not on an expiring deal.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 23, 2018 10:52:19 GMT -5
How many teams has Smart torched this year.? Ask James F-N Harden, amigo! Should we be showcasing Smart or showboating him at this point? Pud Oh ONE GAME YOUR SAYING. That's great. KINDA STRANGE YOUR STILL BITCHING ABOUT RONDO'S SHOOTING EVEN AFTER HE'S BEEN GONE FOR YEARS. NOT A PEEP ABOUT SMART WHO NUMBERS ARE MUCH WORSE.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 10:53:21 GMT -5
Pud I wish we had held onto him................but not at $15 million and at the risk of not signing Hayward. As awkward and slow of foot Oly was, he's been our best bench player over the past few years. Again, but not at $15 million. I also believe guys like Zeller and Jerebko were decent bench fillers and contributors, much more than what's on the bench now. I mean Jerebko actually started some playoff games last season if I remember. Not sure we'll get that from any of the current bench guys. I recall you lamenting the loss of Oly w/o qualifications or concerns about salary. Maybe I missed it. Maybe it was unspoken. Awkward, slow and more importantly, he played soft defense too.. but he could hit 3pt's. Missing Oly... while also minus an injured Hayward has certainly made Oly's absence a good bit keener. We'll see what sorts of salary demands Smart makes... but his defense is simply off the charts.... and defense needs to be the Celtic trademark. Pud I agree. He plays over 30 mins per game. You have to admit he sucked last game, though. Too many turnovers and stupid plays. Overall I like him and hope we keep him. IF we trade him, I'd like to get a guy not on an expiring deal.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 23, 2018 10:58:30 GMT -5
Smart is gone with Hayward coming back next year Ainge made that clear whne he made no offer at all to extend Smarts contract.
We can at least get something instead of letting him walk like Oly. Will the Suns take him? Depends on what other offers they have.
Not may teams are begging for SMART with his recent poor play. He has regressed this year instead of improving.
Rozier better up his numbers he is in line to get a walking ticket to.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 23, 2018 11:14:40 GMT -5
Not just the turnovers in the last game. His last 5 games Smart is averaging more turnovers than assists.
He's a one trick pony just like Thomas. One Trick Ponies don't get pasture in Boston for long.
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Post by puddin on Jan 23, 2018 11:20:47 GMT -5
Ask James F-N Harden, amigo! Should we be showcasing Smart or showboating him at this point? Pud Oh ONE GAME YOUR SAYING. That's great. KINDA STRANGE YOUR STILL BITCHING ABOUT RONDO'S SHOOTING EVEN AFTER HE'S BEEN GONE FOR YEARS. NOT A PEEP ABOUT SMART WHO NUMBERS ARE MUCH WORSE. Don't need to shout, amigo. I can hear you. You were radio silent after Smart "torched" Harden BTW. Meditating perhaps? I've not bitched about Rondo's shooting in years. Matter of fact, I advised you recently about his shooting 75% from the stripe this season. 6 for 8 to be precise. So do we showboat or showcase Smart? Your call. Pud
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 11:48:35 GMT -5
Not many teams are begging for Smart. Yes, I said that. He is more valuable to us than to other teams. That's why I don't think PHO would take him. They are allergic to defense out there.............
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Post by petey62 on Jan 23, 2018 12:01:40 GMT -5
I believe an efficient offensive player (good shooting %, low TO ratio, etc.) who happens to be a marginal, intelligent defensive player (can do some intangibles) IS GREATER than Marcus Smart.
Smart plays 30 minutes a game yet only has a PER of 9.63. Terry Rozier plays 23 minutes per game with a PER of 13.35. If Rozier became a more consistent offensive player, he'd be the first guy off the bench. Honestly, I think Rozier is a better basketball player than Smart is, with so much more development and progress to make.
Again, Marcus does the intangibles and that cannot be measured. However, if the measurables were much better, there would probably be less of a need for those end-of-game intangibles. Smart will shoot 3-12 from the floor and 2-9 from 3-point range but all we'll remember are two offensive fouls he goaded a player into committing, or that one critical rebound in traffic he grabbed. Those saving intangibles wouldn't be needed if he were slightly more effective on the offensive end. There is no other player on the roster that basically wastes possessions with so many ill-advised, contested, off-balance shots that he's not capable of converting (Jaylen Brown comes in 2nd place).
I think Smart is who he is. I don't think we'll see an amazingly improved perimeter shot like we did with Bradley after about 3-4 years. We won't see that. We'll continue to see exactly what we're seeing from Smart.
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Post by puddin on Jan 23, 2018 12:24:06 GMT -5
I believe an efficient offensive player (good shooting %, low TO ratio, etc.) who happens to be a marginal, intelligent defensive player (can do some intangibles) IS GREATER than Marcus Smart. Smart plays 30 minutes a game yet only has a PER of 9.63. Terry Rozier plays 23 minutes per game with a PER of 13.35. If Rozier became a more consistent offensive player, he'd be the first guy off the bench. Honestly, I think Rozier is a better basketball player than Smart is, with so much more development and progress to make. Again, Marcus does the intangibles and that cannot be measured. However, if the measurables were much better, there would probably be less of a need for those end-of-game intangibles. Smart will shoot 3-12 from the floor and 2-9 from 3-point range but all we'll remember are two offensive fouls he goaded a player into committing, or that one critical rebound in traffic he grabbed. Those saving intangibles wouldn't be needed if he were slightly more effective on the offensive end. There is no other player on the roster that basically wastes possessions with so many ill-advised, contested, off-balance shots that he's not capable of converting (Jaylen Brown comes in 2nd place). I think Smart is who he is. I don't think we'll see an amazingly improved perimeter shot like we did with Bradley after about 3-4 years. We won't see that. We'll continue to see exactly what we're seeing from Smart. I wonder why CBS plays him 30min/game instead of 15-20min/game? Seems to me that this would avoid the necessity of Smart's end of game intangibles for sure. Pud
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 12:28:06 GMT -5
I believe an efficient offensive player (good shooting %, low TO ratio, etc.) who happens to be a marginal, intelligent defensive player (can do some intangibles) IS GREATER than Marcus Smart. Smart plays 30 minutes a game yet only has a PER of 9.63. Terry Rozier plays 23 minutes per game with a PER of 13.35. If Rozier became a more consistent offensive player, he'd be the first guy off the bench. Honestly, I think Rozier is a better basketball player than Smart is, with so much more development and progress to make. Again, Marcus does the intangibles and that cannot be measured. However, if the measurables were much better, there would probably be less of a need for those end-of-game intangibles. Smart will shoot 3-12 from the floor and 2-9 from 3-point range but all we'll remember are two offensive fouls he goaded a player into committing, or that one critical rebound in traffic he grabbed. Those saving intangibles wouldn't be needed if he were slightly more effective on the offensive end. There is no other player on the roster that basically wastes possessions with so many ill-advised, contested, off-balance shots that he's not capable of converting (Jaylen Brown comes in 2nd place). I think Smart is who he is. I don't think we'll see an amazingly improved perimeter shot like we did with Bradley after about 3-4 years. We won't see that. We'll continue to see exactly what we're seeing from Smart. Agree it should be one or the other. Rozier is maddening to me, though. As you say, Smart is who he is. Rozier can have 4 great games in a row, then 3 stinkers...............I'd rather, as a coach myself, have the consistent guy, even if the offense is consistently bad. We are starting to see how much we miss Hayward. I believe with him, we wouldn't have to "count" on Smart OR Rozier for any offense at all. Which is why I'm preaching patience with this group, it's incomplete. It's also why I want a guy not on an expiring deal. If (WHEN) Hayward comes back at full strength, we are going to be a force (with a few key additions, of course). But the additions are not necessary right now, IMO.
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Post by puddin on Jan 23, 2018 12:33:02 GMT -5
I believe an efficient offensive player (good shooting %, low TO ratio, etc.) who happens to be a marginal, intelligent defensive player (can do some intangibles) IS GREATER than Marcus Smart. Smart plays 30 minutes a game yet only has a PER of 9.63. Terry Rozier plays 23 minutes per game with a PER of 13.35. If Rozier became a more consistent offensive player, he'd be the first guy off the bench. Honestly, I think Rozier is a better basketball player than Smart is, with so much more development and progress to make. Again, Marcus does the intangibles and that cannot be measured. However, if the measurables were much better, there would probably be less of a need for those end-of-game intangibles. Smart will shoot 3-12 from the floor and 2-9 from 3-point range but all we'll remember are two offensive fouls he goaded a player into committing, or that one critical rebound in traffic he grabbed. Those saving intangibles wouldn't be needed if he were slightly more effective on the offensive end. There is no other player on the roster that basically wastes possessions with so many ill-advised, contested, off-balance shots that he's not capable of converting (Jaylen Brown comes in 2nd place). I think Smart is who he is. I don't think we'll see an amazingly improved perimeter shot like we did with Bradley after about 3-4 years. We won't see that. We'll continue to see exactly what we're seeing from Smart. Agree it should be one or the other. Rozier is maddening to me, though. As you say, Smart is who he is. Rozier can have 4 great games in a row, then 3 stinkers...............I'd rather, as a coach myself, have the consistent guy, even if the offense is consistently bad. We are starting to see how much we miss Hayward. I believe with him, we wouldn't have to "count" on Smart OR Rozier for any offense at all. Which is why I'm preaching patience with this group, it's incomplete. It's also why I want a guy not on an expiring deal. If (WHEN) Hayward comes back at full strength, we are going to be a force (with a few key additions, of course). But the additions are not necessary right now, IMO. We are incomplete.... and patience is a very hard sell. Pud
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Post by sfbosfan on Jan 23, 2018 12:45:34 GMT -5
It is recommended by some sports writers that Love be traded from the Cavs. Would he be too expensive, not worth it, a trouble maker etc.?
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 23, 2018 12:48:41 GMT -5
Showcasing Pud. Thomas is the showboater. LA is doing a fine job with Randal and Clarkson
No report on Balls return or even if he's really hurt. That means they have started trying to move the two already.
I stepped up and said we should have resigned Smart i looked for him to improve this year.
I was way wrong as it seems. Now i care less he has just about reached his full potential.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 23, 2018 12:51:27 GMT -5
It is recommended by some sports writers that Love be traded from the Cavs. Would he be too expensive, not worth it, a trouble maker etc.? Love and now Thomas are the reasons the Cavs suck. Two starters that play no D. No love for Love in Boston by anyone is my guess.
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Post by Admin on Jan 23, 2018 13:09:47 GMT -5
Walk? If not mistaken, he'd come with Bird-Rts if waived. The C's would then have up to $8.6MM with the DPE to offer for the remainder of the season if he signs here as a FA. If he works out he could be resigned over the cap with those bird rts. Operative word is "could".........Kyrie is coming due after next season, I believe. He makes 17 mill this year. Would he sign for less? I don't think we can afford him after this year, hence my use of the word "walk." I think Monroe would be a rental. So, in my mind, it is not worth it, unless it's Smart straight up...........and, would you do that if you were PHO? You are speaking as though the C's have a hard cap. My understanding is that ownership is willing to pay the "tax" if the roster is a contender. Re PHO, I don't know what they need but they seem to have too many bigs. Besides, I don't see Monroe coming via trade. It would be as a FA once waived otherwise not at all.
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Post by Admin on Jan 23, 2018 13:15:49 GMT -5
It is recommended by some sports writers that Love be traded from the Cavs. Would he be too expensive, not worth it, a trouble maker etc.? He can fill it up from three but too slow defensively ... gives up nearly as much as he scores. Monroe is slow too but at least Monroe gives you the added dimension of low post scoring and toughness. I'd bet a majority here would pass on Love now (as in the last time he was available) but that doesn't mean Danny would ... Ha!
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Post by petey62 on Jan 23, 2018 13:27:12 GMT -5
I believe an efficient offensive player (good shooting %, low TO ratio, etc.) who happens to be a marginal, intelligent defensive player (can do some intangibles) IS GREATER than Marcus Smart. Smart plays 30 minutes a game yet only has a PER of 9.63. Terry Rozier plays 23 minutes per game with a PER of 13.35. If Rozier became a more consistent offensive player, he'd be the first guy off the bench. Honestly, I think Rozier is a better basketball player than Smart is, with so much more development and progress to make. Again, Marcus does the intangibles and that cannot be measured. However, if the measurables were much better, there would probably be less of a need for those end-of-game intangibles. Smart will shoot 3-12 from the floor and 2-9 from 3-point range but all we'll remember are two offensive fouls he goaded a player into committing, or that one critical rebound in traffic he grabbed. Those saving intangibles wouldn't be needed if he were slightly more effective on the offensive end. There is no other player on the roster that basically wastes possessions with so many ill-advised, contested, off-balance shots that he's not capable of converting (Jaylen Brown comes in 2nd place). I think Smart is who he is. I don't think we'll see an amazingly improved perimeter shot like we did with Bradley after about 3-4 years. We won't see that. We'll continue to see exactly what we're seeing from Smart. Agree it should be one or the other. Rozier is maddening to me, though. As you say, Smart is who he is. Rozier can have 4 great games in a row, then 3 stinkers...............I'd rather, as a coach myself, have the consistent guy, even if the offense is consistently bad. We are starting to see how much we miss Hayward. I believe with him, we wouldn't have to "count" on Smart OR Rozier for any offense at all. Which is why I'm preaching patience with this group, it's incomplete. It's also why I want a guy not on an expiring deal. If (WHEN) Hayward comes back at full strength, we are going to be a force (with a few key additions, of course). But the additions are not necessary right now, IMO. See, we disagree there. That is the very reason why I prefer an expiring deal guy. We have the leverage on his returning next season. I don't want to commit to anyone new for more years unless we're sure. I would not classify Monroe as "sure". He could be but, right now, I'd prefer flexibility. Smart is going to want at least $10M if not more. I'd prefer a guy like Monroe knowing that his $17M is coming off the books and we can have even more flexibility in who we go after. We could still sign him and trade him if that option arises too. But you are right, we are beginning to feel the loss of Hayward. It was definitely going to happen and I'm glad it's not really been too much of a factor until now. But, like Kyrie said, we're gonna face some adversity coming up as a team and we're gonna have to figure it out. Road trips, nagging injuries, fatigue, slumps.......we've got to work ourselves out of them. Side thought: I wonder if the Celtics could make a play at Kawhi Leonard. Horford and Jaylen Brown for Kawhi and Rudy Gay (I'd take his player option for next year as a throw in).
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 13:57:24 GMT -5
Agree it should be one or the other. Rozier is maddening to me, though. As you say, Smart is who he is. Rozier can have 4 great games in a row, then 3 stinkers...............I'd rather, as a coach myself, have the consistent guy, even if the offense is consistently bad. We are starting to see how much we miss Hayward. I believe with him, we wouldn't have to "count" on Smart OR Rozier for any offense at all. Which is why I'm preaching patience with this group, it's incomplete. It's also why I want a guy not on an expiring deal. If (WHEN) Hayward comes back at full strength, we are going to be a force (with a few key additions, of course). But the additions are not necessary right now, IMO. See, we disagree there. That is the very reason why I prefer an expiring deal guy. We have the leverage on his returning next season. I don't want to commit to anyone new for more years unless we're sure. I would not classify Monroe as "sure". He could be but, right now, I'd prefer flexibility. Smart is going to want at least $10M if not more. I'd prefer a guy like Monroe knowing that his $17M is coming off the books and we can have even more flexibility in who we go after. We could still sign him and trade him if that option arises too. But you are right, we are beginning to feel the loss of Hayward. It was definitely going to happen and I'm glad it's not really been too much of a factor until now. But, like Kyrie said, we're gonna face some adversity coming up as a team and we're gonna have to figure it out. Road trips, nagging injuries, fatigue, slumps.......we've got to work ourselves out of them. Side thought: I wonder if the Celtics could make a play at Kawhi Leonard. Horford and Jaylen Brown for Kawhi and Rudy Gay (I'd take his player option for next year as a throw in). Understand and respect your viewpoint. From today until Feb 8 should be very interesting!!
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jan 23, 2018 13:59:41 GMT -5
Operative word is "could".........Kyrie is coming due after next season, I believe. He makes 17 mill this year. Would he sign for less? I don't think we can afford him after this year, hence my use of the word "walk." I think Monroe would be a rental. So, in my mind, it is not worth it, unless it's Smart straight up...........and, would you do that if you were PHO? You are speaking as though the C's have a hard cap. My understanding is that ownership is willing to pay the "tax" if the roster is a contender.Re PHO, I don't know what they need but they seem to have too many bigs. Besides, I don't see Monroe coming via trade. It would be as a FA once waived otherwise not at all. That is my point. I don't think adding Greg Monroe this year makes us a contender. Next year, maybe, but I think I'd rather keep flexibility for signing Kyrie than committing over 17 mill to Monroe.
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Post by Admin on Jan 23, 2018 14:28:29 GMT -5
You are speaking as though the C's have a hard cap. My understanding is that ownership is willing to pay the "tax" if the roster is a contender.Re PHO, I don't know what they need but they seem to have too many bigs. Besides, I don't see Monroe coming via trade. It would be as a FA once waived otherwise not at all. That is my point. I don't think adding Greg Monroe this year makes us a contender. Next year, maybe, but I think I'd rather keep flexibility for signing Kyrie than committing over 17 mill to Monroe. Not Monroe alone but Evans & Monroe may ... As Petey said so well, Monroe does give you flexibility. If he works Danny can work out a contract that works for both parties. If not, bye-bye! Kyrie can be kept no matter the cost and will be since by then this team s/b a regular contender and unafraid to pay the LT. Just think about adding Hayward (already built into cap), a potential top 5 pick from the Lakers and having Bird-Rts to a player we add this season at the trade deadline. That's three and maybe four (if we trade for a 2nd this season) additions (3 vets & 1 prospect) to improve the team or add to tradable assets. Kyrie-Hayward-Horford as a core with Brown-Tatum-Ayton( ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ) developing and Evans, Monroe or Favors as potential new signings. Morris, Theis and Rozier as dept or trade bait and YaBusele & Ojeleye tied up safely for future use. The only concern seems to be Smart and if we get Evans or even Lou Williams will that still be a concern?
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