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Post by petey62 on Jan 3, 2022 11:57:06 GMT -5
This might be Jaylon's best shooting game. I don't know what his percentage was when he had 44 earlier in the season. My problem with him is that he gets too "hot doggy" and that's when he screws up. When he did the behind the back pass to Josh for the layup late in the game, I cringed at first saying "what are you doing". He had a great shooting game and even pulled down 11 rebounds but those 7 turnovers can't happen AND AGAINST THE ORLANDO MAGIC. It took 33 points in the 2nd half to win in OT against this team. We have to play much better. you watch the game? Two of the turnovers were from bad passes one from Schroder one from Horford that he tried to save Official scorer was wrong. Video proof is there Then ask yourself Who guards the opposing teams best player most all the timeThree double doubles out of the last 4 games ya missed that also? granted his handle needs to improve Jaylen oftentimes loses the ball in what I call "unforced turnovers" - dribbling in traffic getting it stolen or stripped off his knee/thigh, stepping out of bounds, careless passes because he's up in the air with nowhere to go. Jaylen often doesn't look at the person he's passing the ball to. He simply presumes somebody, anybody, is in the place he's throwing the ball. He made a perfect assist to Horford for a huge shot to counter Ross's 4 point play late in the game. THAT is the way to make a solid assist where your teammate can get the ball and put up a good shot. And with the attention Brown gets when attacking, he can set up teammates all night doing that. All that other dribbling between the legs till he loses the ball stuff is "ESPN highlight nonsense". And his handle is weak and he doesn't know when NOT to force the action. He depends way too much on his athleticism rather than a move/skill. To answer your question, that player would be Marcus Smart. Smart is likely to guard the opposing team's best player for the better part of a game. But honestly, that doesn't matter considering the amount of time we switch. So, although Smart, and sometimes Brown, other times GWill or Richardson, checks the best player, they oftentimes switch off so much and end up guarding a big or someone else. Yesterday, I really think Grant Williams seemed to always get switched off guarding Ross or Wagner. Not Jaylen Brown. In my opinion, Jaylen Brown has not been a solid leader of this team with Tatum having been out a few games. Small sample size, of course, but nonetheless, Jaylen has not shown himself that well as this team's leader.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 12:10:17 GMT -5
Ross killed Gwill .
Brown started out guarding Wagner and Wagner never found his his rhythm the whole game.
Smart rarely guards the opposing teams best player this year and were not switching like mad like last year.
Players are fighting thu screens much more this year....
Who's the leader? No one i agree on that
Its neither Tatum or Brown yet Stevens never molded a leader only punk losers.
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Post by petey62 on Jan 3, 2022 12:21:13 GMT -5
Ross killed Gwill . Brown started out guarding Wagner and Wagner never found his grove the whole game. Smart rarely guards the opposing teams best player this year and were not switching like mad like last year. Players are fighting thu screens much more this year.... Who's the leader? No one i agree on that Its neither Tatum or Brown yet Stevens never molded a leader only punk losers. Ross killed everybody checking him. He killed GWill so much cause Orlando is smart....they kept bringing GWill's guy up to set the screen thus the switch. See, one-on-one, I thought GWill was checking him and he dribbled left every single time for layups. But I agree Wagner never got into a groove. So you believe we're NOT switching A WHOLE LOT? To me, we switch WAY TOO MUCH. We switch when we don't have to. We switch when there is space available to go thru (not even fight thru). You're right about the lack of leadership. Maybe "leader" isn't the right description. To me, it just seemed that Jaylen melted over the last few games Tatum was out. He shot 21 of 56 the previous two games (he shot well yesterday). He just wasn't that effective until yesterday. I would have thought we would get the overall production from others yesterday and NOT against PHX.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 12:40:10 GMT -5
Ross killed Gwill . Brown started out guarding Wagner and Wagner never found his grove the whole game. Smart rarely guards the opposing teams best player this year and were not switching like mad like last year. Players are fighting thu screens much more this year.... Who's the leader? No one i agree on that Its neither Tatum or Brown yet Stevens never molded a leader only punk losers. Ross killed everybody checking him. He killed GWill so much cause Orlando is smart....they kept bringing GWill's guy up to set the screen thus the switch. See, one-on-one, I thought GWill was checking him and he dribbled left every single time for layups. But I agree Wagner never got into a groove. So you believe we're NOT switching A WHOLE LOT? To me, we switch WAY TOO MUCH. We switch when we don't have to. We switch when there is space available to go thru (not even fight thru). You're right about the lack of leadership. Maybe "leader" isn't the right description. To me, it just seemed that Jaylen melted over the last few games Tatum was out. He shot 21 of 56 the previous two games (he shot well yesterday). He just wasn't that effective until yesterday. I would have thought we would get the overall production from others yesterday and NOT against PHX. IME is switching a lot less than Stevens is it still too much? Probably Now i don't love Tatum especially at PF but i do believe we should build around the Js. We need a real PG and a damn center who has good legs and isn't nearing 40. How were going to get them? I have no clue Ainge raped the Celtics with Stevens help then fled to his comfort zone in Utah. Maybe a prayer or another shiney gold object who burns sage comes to Ainge
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Post by petey62 on Jan 3, 2022 13:03:54 GMT -5
Ross killed everybody checking him. He killed GWill so much cause Orlando is smart....they kept bringing GWill's guy up to set the screen thus the switch. See, one-on-one, I thought GWill was checking him and he dribbled left every single time for layups. But I agree Wagner never got into a groove. So you believe we're NOT switching A WHOLE LOT? To me, we switch WAY TOO MUCH. We switch when we don't have to. We switch when there is space available to go thru (not even fight thru). You're right about the lack of leadership. Maybe "leader" isn't the right description. To me, it just seemed that Jaylen melted over the last few games Tatum was out. He shot 21 of 56 the previous two games (he shot well yesterday). He just wasn't that effective until yesterday. I would have thought we would get the overall production from others yesterday and NOT against PHX. IME is switching a lot less than Stevens is it still too much? Probably Now i don't love Tatum especially at PF but i do believe we should build around the Js.We need a real PG and a damn center who has good legs and isn't nearing 40. How were going to get them? I have no clue Ainge raped the Celtics with Stevens help then fled to his comfort zone in Utah. Maybe a prayer or another shiney gold object who burns sage comes to Ainge <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I have to agree with you. I think we should be patient and just build around the J's. In 2 or 3 years, both should be much more advanced than they are now. But you're right, Tatum is not a PF. A real PG would eliminate the iso's and pounding the ball by them. You know, I'd take a PF in the Marcus Morris mold and "hope" RWill gets stronger and can play more games.
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Post by kyceltic on Jan 3, 2022 13:28:22 GMT -5
IME is switching a lot less than Stevens is it still too much? Probably Now i don't love Tatum especially at PF but i do believe we should build around the Js.We need a real PG and a damn center who has good legs and isn't nearing 40. How were going to get them? I have no clue Ainge raped the Celtics with Stevens help then fled to his comfort zone in Utah. Maybe a prayer or another shiney gold object who burns sage comes to Ainge <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I have to agree with you. I think we should be patient and just build around the J's. In 2 or 3 years, both should be much more advanced than they are now. But you're right, Tatum is not a PF. A real PG would eliminate the iso's and pounding the ball by them. You know, I'd take a PF in the Marcus Morris mold and "hope" RWill gets stronger and can play more games. He's right about Tatum not being a power forward, but he's wrong about the switching, we're switching more than ever! Nobody is guarding the teams best player, because of all the switches! No one attempts to fight through a screen!
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Post by cole on Jan 3, 2022 13:29:49 GMT -5
IME is switching a lot less than Stevens is it still too much? Probably Now i don't love Tatum especially at PF but i do believe we should build around the Js.We need a real PG and a damn center who has good legs and isn't nearing 40. How were going to get them? I have no clue Ainge raped the Celtics with Stevens help then fled to his comfort zone in Utah. Maybe a prayer or another shiney gold object who burns sage comes to Ainge <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> I have to agree with you. I think we should be patient and just build around the J's. In 2 or 3 years, both should be much more advanced than they are now. But you're right, Tatum is not a PF. A real PG would eliminate the iso's and pounding the ball by them. You know, I'd take a PF in the Marcus Morris mold and "hope" RWill gets stronger and can play more games. Keep the j's and rwill. The rest are dispensible. I thought Marcus could be our veteran leader and heart, but now he'll be too old by the time we get back to that mattering. Better to let him go where he can thrive like maybe GS I like rwill and his limitations are now baked into his value. Keep him
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 14:02:37 GMT -5
I have to agree with you. I think we should be patient and just build around the J's. In 2 or 3 years, both should be much more advanced than they are now. But you're right, Tatum is not a PF. A real PG would eliminate the iso's and pounding the ball by them. You know, I'd take a PF in the Marcus Morris mold and "hope" RWill gets stronger and can play more games. He's right about Tatum not being a power forward, but he's wrong about the switching, we're switching more than ever! Nobody is guarding the teams best player, because of all the switches! No one attempts to fight through a screen! I see less but still too much. Cole is right Rwill is baked in . Oh lord this makes Smart our only tradeable real asset. ah PUD? Got another idea i'm all ears? Schroder should have been shipped allready to the Cavs for a ist rounder to give us more chips. Ya can't play poker with no chips where i come from..
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Post by petey62 on Jan 3, 2022 14:19:53 GMT -5
I think Schroder, Smart and Horford are our 3 best trade chips.
But if Schroder and Smart get traded, we MUST get back a PG as part of any deals involving them. PP can't lead this team at the PG position.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 14:46:29 GMT -5
I think Schroder, Smart and Horford are our 3 best trade chips. But if Schroder and Smart get traded, we MUST gemadet back a PG as part of any deals involving them. PP can't lead this team at the PG position. Exactly. We drafted wings and traded for a few 6'0 shooting guards most are gone thankfully... Hard to get excited when Stevens said he was all in with Ainge's moves.. Dr B made the best comment early this year I see Stevens footprints all over this team.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 15:22:25 GMT -5
I agree and like the emphasis on thinking about the return when considering who to move. If it is true that the league has priced in RWills limitations and ever-present health issues, meaning we wont get a great return - then it makes sense to keep him. But, personally, Im not convinced this is the case. I think theres a possibility that people like him an dont want to move him (which is understandable) and therefore assume it doesnt make sense to move him. Im not sure how every GM in the league views him, but I do think that generally, bigs dont hold a ton of trade value - and I err on the side of "keep, not enough return to move"
I feel that this board in particular underrates Smart trade value. I still think he'd have ample move value, and if we can get a great return, its obviously worth considering.
Schroder and Horford, I think are in a slightly different category than the aforementioned 2, because I dont need some great return for them because they arent likely to be here much longer anyways, so even a late first (that can be packaged) for each would be fine.
Im not really sure why we are against playing 1 big, in combination with Tatum. Does this make Tatum a PF? Not really. ITs kind of dated to look at stuff like that. The real thing is he doesnt really play like a big, not because he cant, but because its unneeded. Jaylen can handle most PFs and for the few he cant, our C can probably handle those. So Rwill or Horford on Giannis for example, and who guards their center? Who freaking cares. Whomever that hack is , is not going to beat us.
Personally, I still feel that our ideal lineup, we would want another true guard/shooter. We'll call him guard X. My ideal lineup is
Smart Guard x (to be acquired) Jaylen Tatum Rwill/Horford splitting time at the 5
This doesnt necessarily make Tatum a PF. But I honestly think we need mobility and shooting right now more than post-up opportunities.
If we were at full strength, I think Id start Smart, Richardson, Jaylen, Tatum, and either Rwill/Horford. But even Richardson isnt ideal because he's not a pace pusher or a lights-out shooter.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 15:40:10 GMT -5
Looks to me like Tatum will be the PF or the 4 Drew out of default I care less about the term or number you use.
My problem with that?
He playes poor D in the paint much better suited on the wing where he can get steals .He gets few offensive boards
We'll see how it works no way we pick up a decent big and a real PG both this year. .Your wish will come true most likely.
Who or what is guard X and how do we get him? Smart is not a PG and he's getting older and slower
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 15:54:53 GMT -5
Looks to me like Tatum will be the PF or the 4 Drew out of default I care less about the term or number you use. My problem with that? He playes poor D in the paint much better suited on the wing where he can get steals .He gets few offensive boards We'll see how it works no way we pick up a decent big and a real PG both this year. .Your wish will come true most likely. Who or what is guard X and how do we get him? Smart is not a PG and he's getting older and slower He doesnt play poor D anywhere, but I agree he's a great wing defender vs a good paint defender. He's kind of a passing lane specialist and I agree we lose too much of that when he's bodied up on an opposing player post-up. I just dont think you need 2 paint defenders in today's nba. Now there will likely be stretches (even in the playoffs) where we want to "go big" and I agree we should have the option of inserting a "PF" or "4" or really, most accurately put, a "second big" Im a play the matchups / play chess kinda guy over a "same lineup every night" kind of guy, but understand there are merits to both. If a matchup or game feel makes our coach think we should go big by inserting a second paint-defender / post-up scorer, Im not against it. But to me, its situational. I do think; however, that our most pressing need at present is shooting. And I think you are most likely to find that in a guard. I also love when we are playing transition, so inserting another true guard helps there too.
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Post by cole on Jan 3, 2022 16:06:05 GMT -5
I agree and like the emphasis on thinking about the return when considering who to move. If it is true that the league has priced in RWills limitations and ever-present health issues, meaning we wont get a great return - then it makes sense to keep him. But, personally, Im not convinced this is the case. I think theres a possibility that people like him an dont want to move him (which is understandable) and therefore assume it doesnt make sense to move him. Im not sure how every GM in the league views him, but I do think that generally, bigs dont hold a ton of trade value - and I err on the side of "keep, not enough return to move" I feel that this board in particular underrates Smart trade value. I still think he'd have ample move value, and if we can get a great return, its obviously worth considering. Schroder and Horford, I think are in a slightly different category than the aforementioned 2, because I dont need some great return for them because they arent likely to be here much longer anyways, so even a late first (that can be packaged) for each would be fine. Im not really sure why we are against playing 1 big, in combination with Tatum. Does this make Tatum a PF? Not really. ITs kind of dated to look at stuff like that. The real thing is he doesnt really play like a big, not because he cant, but because its unneeded. Jaylen can handle most PFs and for the few he cant, our C can probably handle those. So Rwill or Horford on Giannis for example, and who guards their center? Who freaking cares. Whomever that hack is , is not going to beat us. Personally, I still feel that our ideal lineup, we would want another true guard/shooter. We'll call him guard X. My ideal lineup is Smart Guard x (to be acquired) Jaylen Tatum Rwill/Horford splitting time at the 5 This doesnt necessarily make Tatum a PF. But I honestly think we need mobility and shooting right now more than post-up opportunities. If we were at full strength, I think Id start Smart, Richardson, Jaylen, Tatum, and either Rwill/Horford. But even Richardson isnt ideal because he's not a pace pusher or a lights-out shooter. Tatum at PF depends on the matchup. Some 4's he can match up with and some are just going to be too physical for him. His natural position is the 3 and when he's there he and brown can make passing lanes look really small. He's a "break glass" 4.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 17:56:37 GMT -5
I agree and like the emphasis on thinking about the return when considering who to move. If it is true that the league has priced in RWills limitations and ever-present health issues, meaning we wont get a great return - then it makes sense to keep him. But, personally, Im not convinced this is the case. I think theres a possibility that people like him an dont want to move him (which is understandable) and therefore assume it doesnt make sense to move him. Im not sure how every GM in the league views him, but I do think that generally, bigs dont hold a ton of trade value - and I err on the side of "keep, not enough return to move" I feel that this board in particular underrates Smart trade value. I still think he'd have ample move value, and if we can get a great return, its obviously worth considering. Schroder and Horford, I think are in a slightly different category than the aforementioned 2, because I dont need some great return for them because they arent likely to be here much longer anyways, so even a late first (that can be packaged) for each would be fine. Im not really sure why we are against playing 1 big, in combination with Tatum. Does this make Tatum a PF? Not really. ITs kind of dated to look at stuff like that. The real thing is he doesnt really play like a big, not because he cant, but because its unneeded. Jaylen can handle most PFs and for the few he cant, our C can probably handle those. So Rwill or Horford on Giannis for example, and who guards their center? Who freaking cares. Whomever that hack is , is not going to beat us. Personally, I still feel that our ideal lineup, we would want another true guard/shooter. We'll call him guard X. My ideal lineup is Smart Guard x (to be acquired) Jaylen Tatum Rwill/Horford splitting time at the 5 This doesnt necessarily make Tatum a PF. But I honestly think we need mobility and shooting right now more than post-up opportunities. If we were at full strength, I think Id start Smart, Richardson, Jaylen, Tatum, and either Rwill/Horford. But even Richardson isnt ideal because he's not a pace pusher or a lights-out shooter. Tatum at PF depends on the matchup. Some 4's he can match up with and some are just going to be too physical for him. His natural position is the 3 and when he's there he and brown can make passing lanes look really small. He's a "break glass" 4. Any PF who is too big for Tatum to handle, is best left to a C anyways. So Giannis may be too much for Tatum to handle on his own, but thats what you have RWill and Horford for , as a second layer of D against guys like that. Most rim protection is handled via zone anyways.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 17:58:51 GMT -5
So against Giannis, you would put Tatum on him and then likely have Horford/Rwill whomever is in there, slide over to provide help/rim protection. Is it going to stop the freak? Probs not, but I cant think of a better combination / way to guard him. Putting Al and RWill both in the game against Giannis is not going to be better.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 18:15:26 GMT -5
And think about how they are coaching these bigs now-a-days. "keep the ball high"
Coaches dont even want to see big men bring the ball down to their waist, nevermind off the floor.
You just dont have to worry about big overpowering PFs backing you down anymore. And if anyone tries that boneheaded shit, thats when Smart comes and strips em w ease. Even Grant is fine. All you have to do is hold ground long enough for Smart to come over and get the strip.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 18:16:21 GMT -5
So against Giannis, you would put Tatum on him and then likely have Horford/Rwill whomever is in there, slide over to provide help/rim protection. Is it going to stop the freak? Probs not, but I cant think of a better combination / way to guard him. Putting Al and RWill both in the game against Giannis is not going to be better. and........Tatum would foul out probably 3 quarter.. Gator armed Grant would't last that long.. Thanks to Cole its now Gator Grant for me Gator fouled out last nite against a young and weak frontcourt
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 18:22:43 GMT -5
So against Giannis, you would put Tatum on him and then likely have Horford/Rwill whomever is in there, slide over to provide help/rim protection. Is it going to stop the freak? Probs not, but I cant think of a better combination / way to guard him. Putting Al and RWill both in the game against Giannis is not going to be better. and........Tatum would foul out probably 3 quarter.. Gator armed Grant would't last that long.. Thanks to Cole its now Gator Grant for me Well Giannis is an absolute nightmare to gameplan for defensively. If Tatum starts picking up fouls, I agree you'd have to adjust. But I dont think the secret ingredient to stopping Giannis is to just have 2 mammoths on the court. Certainly you need one to come over with the help, but its okay if the guy bodying him up is giving up some size. Cuz thats what you have the over the top help for. But thats a fair point, that if we are going to stay in that game, we cant have Tatum picking up fouls.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 18:23:33 GMT -5
Giannis puts the ball on the floor too much, your best bet of slowing him is attacking there. Marcus would prob be our best bet. Marcus can also sell some offensive fouls, lol.
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 18:29:31 GMT -5
Giannis puts the ball on the floor too much, your best bet of slowing him is attacking there. Marcus would prob be our best bet. Marcus can also sell some offensive fouls, lol. despite winning this award the ref's arn't buying tickets to Smart's show as of recent....
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 18:30:02 GMT -5
But against Giannis, really nothing should be off the table. If the team wants to try, say Horford bodied up on him w RWill hanging back at the rim w/ the help. Sure, why not try it? If hes blowing by Horford and carrying momentum into Rwill w space, Rwill is toast...But may as well try it. You gotta take away his space as much as possible so the last line of D isnt trying to guard him 1 on 1 with Giannis completely uninhibited. 3-4 years ago, Horford could shuffle with him. Remember that game 1 when we won (and then got dominated the rest of the series) , but in that game 1 Horford did an excellent job taking away his space, so Id be down to try him on Giannis.
In that matchup, you 100% need a rim protector to give some help. So if you are bodying up w Horford, youd want Rwill in the game. I wouldnt be opposed to trying it.
I mean, this is our real problem. We need Horford and we kind of need Smart and we need both the Jays, and we need Schroder for bench scoring. We dont have much of a surplus anywhere to trade from. Ainge wasted too many assets by making too many mid-late firsts. You gotta package those up for an impact player or you find yourself stuck with a bunch of guys who "are starters on bad teams, bench players on good teams" but not enough very good / impact players.
Its hard to trade for your needs, when you need everyone w any semblance of trade value.
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Post by cole on Jan 3, 2022 18:46:35 GMT -5
Semi was good at least at guarding giannis. I sometimes wonder if Milwaukee didn't take him just to get him off the board.
He was a lot quicker than gwill.
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Post by drewski6 on Jan 3, 2022 18:48:49 GMT -5
Semi was good at least at guarding giannis. I sometimes wonder if Milwaukee didn't take him just to get him off the board. He was a lot quicker than gwill. Agree there. But guarding Giannis takes a gameplan, strategy and multiple players. But Semi bodied up w some over the top help could work (as best you could hope for).
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Post by dfries13 on Jan 3, 2022 19:57:28 GMT -5
Giannis ? Probable never see him if we crawl into the 8th seed..
Nets and Bulls both take us out..
Watch old Horford decline as his miles go up this year
Its possible he and Rwill neither will be really healthy after another 40 gamess.
Hats off to Drew . nailed it
''''''Its hard to trade for your needs, when you need everyone w any semblance of trade value.''''
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