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Post by elvissurfs on Nov 17, 2021 21:45:18 GMT -5
Oh crap, another guy bringing facts to an emotional argument...errr...
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Post by elvissurfs on Nov 17, 2021 21:46:44 GMT -5
Taum, player of the game, 34 points in yet another losing effort...dont think he is long for this town...
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Post by dfries13 on Nov 17, 2021 21:47:10 GMT -5
I must be insane, to keep watching this and expecting different results... Beers and joints take the edge off.. ill tell ya about my toad venom micro dosing after i finish my case study
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Post by dfries13 on Nov 17, 2021 21:53:16 GMT -5
player of the game award! collins got 20 pts 11 boards yet Grant won the matchup Check with your accountat wife math excapes you
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Post by dfries13 on Nov 17, 2021 21:57:43 GMT -5
Tatum top man with 4 turnovers two in the 4th quarter
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Post by kyceltic on Nov 17, 2021 22:01:01 GMT -5
player of the game award! collins got 20 pts 11 boards yet Grant won the matchup Check with your accountat wife math excapes you Tell Scal, he's the one who gives player of the game awards, not me! Did your men Smart and Nesmith win their match ups??
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Post by puddin on Nov 17, 2021 22:16:49 GMT -5
If I were Tatum and Brown I'd give them an ultimatum, get somebody that can play or we're leaving! I personally would not be opposed to a fire sale to get this franchise on the road to recovery.
First up.... the Jays... who wants them and what will you give us for them.... sold as a pair or separately.
Pud
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Post by elvissurfs on Nov 17, 2021 22:30:55 GMT -5
If I were Tatum and Brown I'd give them an ultimatum, get somebody that can play or we're leaving! I personally would not be opposed to a fire sale to get this franchise on the road to recovery.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
First up.... the Jays... who wants them and what will you give us for them.... sold as a pair or separately.
Pud
Well, unfortunately, I must admit that I am close to being on board with that...Jaylen because he is brittle and Tatum because he is a Robin and we have no Batman...as Fierce would say...though, Fierce thought Tatum was a Batman...unfortunatley wrong, thus far...
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Post by kyceltic on Nov 17, 2021 23:07:48 GMT -5
I personally would not be opposed to a fire sale to get this franchise on the road to recovery.
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
First up.... the Jays... who wants them and what will you give us for them.... sold as a pair or separately.
Pud
Well, unfortunately, I must admit that I am close to being on board with that...Jaylen because he is brittle and Tatum because he is a Robin and we have no Batman...as Fierce would say...though, Fierce thought Tatum was a Batman...unfortunatley wrong, thus far... Durants finding out what the J's already know, if you don't have guys who can make shots, you ain't winning shit!
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Post by cole on Nov 18, 2021 0:42:31 GMT -5
Looks like we're resting up for the lakers. why? National TV
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Post by puddin on Nov 18, 2021 6:35:25 GMT -5
Time to move our two sacred cows in sneakers?
While they have value... before they turn to gore us!
Maybe we could throw in CBS and Austin to sweeten the deal!
The Beantown stage is WAY TOO SMALL for these Jays.
They deserve better... so lets accommodate them!
WIN WIN!
Pud
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Post by kdp59 on Nov 18, 2021 9:05:24 GMT -5
man you guys are reactionary around here...LOL.
I told ya all the other day we would lose this one. not sure why all the angst about it?
some wanna trade everyone now....LOL.
I am on record as saying Tatum is more Melo than Kobe, but I also understand management is not going to trade him.
I actually like Brown more myself, because I think he plays harder. Injuries may be a concern though for sure.
Smart is like the old Rondo arguments amongst Boston fans to me. He's either the heart and soul or a $hitty shooting trouble maker...no place in between to be.
with that all said Instead of giving my take in the game (nothing new anyway), I will give you a shake things up move to ponder (and dismiss of course).
No its not Simmons coming here ( I think he ends up in Sacramento now for Fox)...nor am I going to rehash my dream of Dame coming to be batman to Tatum's robin.
I give you a modified one that meets some current NBA rumors right now.
Smart, Juancho (21.3M) and next years first
to SA for
D. Murray and B. Forbes (19.9M)
SA is over $5M BELOW the tax line so the additional salary doesn't effect them there, They have White at PG with Murray now and both got paid. Smarts' defense/ demeanor would fit well with Pop. They need more help up front and Juanchos' deal is not guaranteed after this season. They get a first from Boston.
Boston gets a true PG for Smart under a similar deal( two years less than Smarts) Forbes can shoot, but SA has a glut of younger options and he isn't playing much for them now. Forbes is an expiring deal with no bird rights.
enjoy!
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Post by puddin on Nov 18, 2021 9:58:18 GMT -5
man you guys are reactionary around here...LOL. I told ya all the other day we would lose this one. not sure why all the angst about it? some wanna trade everyone now....LOL. I am on record as saying Tatum is more Melo than Kobe, but I also understand management is not going to trade him. I actually like Brown more myself, because I think he plays harder. Injuries may be a concern though for sure. Smart is like the old Rondo arguments amongst Boston fans to me. He's either the heart and soul or a $hitty shooting trouble maker...no place in between to be.with that all said Instead of giving my take in the game (nothing new anyway), I will give you a shake things up move to ponder (and dismiss of course). No its not Simmons coming here ( I think he ends up in Sacramento now for Fox)...nor am I going to rehash my dream of Dame coming to be batman to Tatum's robin. I give you a modified one that meets some current NBA rumors right now. Smart, Juancho (21.3M) and next years first to SA for D. Murray and B. Forbes (19.9M) SA is over $5M BELOW the tax line so the additional salary doesn't effect them there, They have White at PG with Murray now and both got paid. Smarts' defense/ demeanor would fit well with Pop. They need more help up front and Juanchos' deal is not guaranteed after this season. They get a first from Boston. Boston gets a true PG for Smart under a similar deal( two years less than Smarts) Forbes can shoot, but SA has a glut of younger options and he isn't playing much for them now. Forbes is an expiring deal with no bird rights. enjoy! I don't recall anyone ever accusing the supremely detached/bored/mercurial/defiant R9R of being the heart and soul of this franchise.
He was certainly the "face" of the franchise for some time after the Big Three left, only because DA could not find a suitable trade partner who would overpay.... and then along came Mark Cuban looking for the missing piece to put the Mavs over the top... and the Cs out of their misery.
The rest is history.
Pud
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Post by petey62 on Nov 18, 2021 10:21:44 GMT -5
kdp59, did you say "reactionary"? I don't think many thought we'd win either but, regardless of the outcome, this team is a mess. But you make some very spot-on points, in particular Tatum being more Melo than Kobe. I totally agree with you there as well as management not trading him.
But certain things should be noted about this team and last night was a continuation of the theme folks have been complaining about all season so far. You are 100% correct that Smart is the heart and soul of the team yet he is also an atrocious shooter and offensive liability. Honestly, the Celtics need more consistent offensive players/shooters than horrible, inconsistent heart and soul players.
We have a major problem with our bigs. RWill is not hurt. He has a condition. RWill won't be better after 40, 60 or 80 games. We should get used to RWill starting and playing and, at halftime, finding out he won't return AND then he'll miss the next game. That's unfortunate because Horford was the big who we were supposed to allow rest and no back-to-backs because of his age. We have to reset our expectations for Horford and RWill because GWill IS NOT a big.
We focused so much on defense and literally paid no attention to where we'll get scoring from. Our offense is horrible. We have no flow, no shooters. Everything is a major challenge just scoring and that should not be. We had only one player off the bench score last night. I don't care who is out....we should never have only one bench player score.
Defensively, we were horrible last night. It cannot be our approach to have Horford and GWill way out on the perimeter doubling Trae. How many times did we see Horford and GWill doubling Trae 40 feet from the basket, AND was unsuccessful defending him. How many times did ATL run pick and roll with either Collins or Capela roaming totally free to the rim because we switched without communicating AND we got no weak side rotations?
Coaching philosophy is lacking. IUD stated in hie post game that we got inconsistent shooting. "Ya don't say". We do not have inconsistent shooting. "Inconsistent shooting suggests there are games where we SHOOT REALLY WELL". We are NOT inconsistent shooters. We are terrible, non-shooters. Shooting like we did last night is nothing unusual. Smart, JRich and GWill ARE NOT inconsistent shooters. They are NON-SHOOTERS.
We need player upgrades all over the place, and fast. I'm on the Dejounte Murray and Cam Reddish bandwagons. I'm all in on those guys.
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Post by kdp59 on Nov 18, 2021 10:24:14 GMT -5
perhaps heat and soul is more current for Smart, for sure.
However there are still Celtic fans that want Rondo here even now. I guess I was talking more how the Fandom split on both Rondo and Smart, as to how important they are to their teams success.
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Post by kyceltic on Nov 18, 2021 10:38:59 GMT -5
kdp59, did you say "reactionary"? I don't think many thought we'd win either but, regardless of the outcome, this team is a mess. But you make some very spot-on points, in particular Tatum being more Melo than Kobe. I totally agree with you there as well as management not trading him. But certain things should be noted about this team and last night was a continuation of the theme folks have been complaining about all season so far. You are 100% correct that Smart is the heart and soul of the team yet he is also an atrocious shooter and offensive liability. Honestly, the Celtics need more consistent offensive players/shooters than horrible, inconsistent heart and soul players. We have a major problem with our bigs. RWill is not hurt. He has a condition. RWill won't be better after 40, 60 or 80 games. We should get used to RWill starting and playing and, at halftime, finding out he won't return AND then he'll miss the next game. That's unfortunate because Horford was the big who we were supposed to allow rest and no back-to-backs because of his age. We have to reset our expectations for Horford and RWill because GWill IS NOT a big. We focused so much on defense and literally paid no attention to where we'll get scoring from. Our offense is horrible. We have no flow, no shooters. Everything is a major challenge just scoring and that should not be. We had only one player off the bench score last night. I don't care who is out....we should never have only one bench player score. Defensively, we were horrible last night. It cannot be our approach to have Horford and GWill way out on the perimeter doubling Trae. How many times did we see Horford and GWill doubling Trae 40 feet from the basket, AND was unsuccessful defending him. How many times did ATL run pick and roll with either Collins or Capela roaming totally free to the rim because we switched without communicating AND we got no weak side rotations? Coaching philosophy is lacking. IUD stated in hie post game that we got inconsistent shooting. "Ya don't say". We do not have inconsistent shooting. "Inconsistent shooting suggests there are games where we SHOOT REALLY WELL". We are NOT inconsistent shooters. We are terrible, non-shooters. Shooting like we did last night is nothing unusual. Smart, JRich and GWill ARE NOT inconsistent shooters. They are NON-SHOOTERS. We need player upgrades all over the place, and fast. I'm on the Dejounte Murray and Cam Reddish bandwagons. I'm all in on those guys. Post of the year!
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Post by petey62 on Nov 18, 2021 10:40:39 GMT -5
I think it's time the Celtics look to bring in more talented and skilled players. We need less "heart-and-soul" type players. We need less hard-nosed smart 6'6" pseudo big men like GWill.
Keep the "heart-and-soul" player and give me a bonafide 40% 3-point shooter that will make you pay to leave him open. The pseudo big man can be the 12th guy on the bench.
I want a shooter (or a professional scorer), a facilitator who can shoot/score, a big who can be counted on NOT to need days off, and all of them capable of moving their feet to play solid team defense.
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Post by kdp59 on Nov 18, 2021 10:41:25 GMT -5
kdp59, did you say "reactionary"? I don't think many thought we'd win either but, regardless of the outcome, this team is a mess. But you make some very spot-on points, in particular Tatum being more Melo than Kobe. I totally agree with you there as well as management not trading him. But certain things should be noted about this team and last night was a continuation of the theme folks have been complaining about all season so far. You are 100% correct that Smart is the heart and soul of the team yet he is also an atrocious shooter and offensive liability. Honestly, the Celtics need more consistent offensive players/shooters than horrible, inconsistent heart and soul players. We have a major problem with our bigs. RWill is not hurt. He has a condition. RWill won't be better after 40, 60 or 80 games. We should get used to RWill starting and playing and, at halftime, finding out he won't return AND then he'll miss the next game. That's unfortunate because Horford was the big who we were supposed to allow rest and no back-to-backs because of his age. We have to reset our expectations for Horford and RWill because GWill IS NOT a big. We focused so much on defense and literally paid no attention to where we'll get scoring from. Our offense is horrible. We have no flow, no shooters. Everything is a major challenge just scoring and that should not be. We had only one player off the bench score last night. I don't care who is out....we should never have only one bench player score. Defensively, we were horrible last night. It cannot be our approach to have Horford and GWill way out on the perimeter doubling Trae. How many times did we see Horford and GWill doubling Trae 40 feet from the basket, AND was unsuccessful defending him. How many times did ATL run pick and roll with either Collins or Capela roaming totally free to the rim because we switched without communicating AND we got no weak side rotations? Coaching philosophy is lacking. IUD stated in hie post game that we got inconsistent shooting. "Ya don't say". We do not have inconsistent shooting. "Inconsistent shooting suggests there are games where we SHOOT REALLY WELL". We are NOT inconsistent shooters. We are terrible, non-shooters. Shooting like we did last night is nothing unusual. Smart, JRich and GWill ARE NOT inconsistent shooters. They are NON-SHOOTERS. We need player upgrades all over the place, and fast. I'm on the Dejounte Murray and Cam Reddish bandwagons. I'm all in on those guys. I said some say Smart is the heart and soul and others say he is a $hitty shooter and over rated ( or something like that). Just as a comparison to the old Rondo wars of old. I came up with a fair trade to get Murray (not sure the Spurs would go along). Reddish was supposedly on the trade table earlier, but as last night showed he is back in the rotation there now. I'm not sure what we could offer Atlanta to get him to be honest, especially if we send a first to get Murray. Our shooting was expected to be a problem from the start, but to be honest most of us felt Tatum would be shooting better and Brown would be playing in more games. Do we win last night if Brown was playing and Tatum was shooting better? in the end I think it gets down to what each of us had an expectation for this team, this year. New, first time head coach. getting rid of some of Ainges' recent moves (Kemba, Thompson, Fournier), with limited cap space to add talent. we're hanging around .500 right now, with was what we were last year...a.500 team. I believe that's about what we could have expected, especially early in the year. Add Browns missing so many games , Tatum's shooting funk and the regression of Pritchard, I think we're damn lucky to be where we are. Now if someone felt this team was a championship contender this year, then i suppose one would be highly disappointed to date. I know Celtics fans like to say, " it's all about Championships In Boston". But is it? I mean we've won exactly ONE in the past 34 years by my count! its not lowered expectations , it's REAL ones to me.
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Post by petey62 on Nov 18, 2021 10:58:33 GMT -5
kdp59, did you say "reactionary"? I don't think many thought we'd win either but, regardless of the outcome, this team is a mess. But you make some very spot-on points, in particular Tatum being more Melo than Kobe. I totally agree with you there as well as management not trading him. But certain things should be noted about this team and last night was a continuation of the theme folks have been complaining about all season so far. You are 100% correct that Smart is the heart and soul of the team yet he is also an atrocious shooter and offensive liability. Honestly, the Celtics need more consistent offensive players/shooters than horrible, inconsistent heart and soul players. We have a major problem with our bigs. RWill is not hurt. He has a condition. RWill won't be better after 40, 60 or 80 games. We should get used to RWill starting and playing and, at halftime, finding out he won't return AND then he'll miss the next game. That's unfortunate because Horford was the big who we were supposed to allow rest and no back-to-backs because of his age. We have to reset our expectations for Horford and RWill because GWill IS NOT a big. We focused so much on defense and literally paid no attention to where we'll get scoring from. Our offense is horrible. We have no flow, no shooters. Everything is a major challenge just scoring and that should not be. We had only one player off the bench score last night. I don't care who is out....we should never have only one bench player score. Defensively, we were horrible last night. It cannot be our approach to have Horford and GWill way out on the perimeter doubling Trae. How many times did we see Horford and GWill doubling Trae 40 feet from the basket, AND was unsuccessful defending him. How many times did ATL run pick and roll with either Collins or Capela roaming totally free to the rim because we switched without communicating AND we got no weak side rotations? Coaching philosophy is lacking. IUD stated in hie post game that we got inconsistent shooting. "Ya don't say". We do not have inconsistent shooting. "Inconsistent shooting suggests there are games where we SHOOT REALLY WELL". We are NOT inconsistent shooters. We are terrible, non-shooters. Shooting like we did last night is nothing unusual. Smart, JRich and GWill ARE NOT inconsistent shooters. They are NON-SHOOTERS. We need player upgrades all over the place, and fast. I'm on the Dejounte Murray and Cam Reddish bandwagons. I'm all in on those guys. I said some say Smart is the heart and soul and others say he is a $hitty shooter and over rated ( or something like that). Just as a comparison to the old Rondo wars of old. I came up with a fair trade to get Murray (not sure the Spurs would go along). Reddish was supposedly on the trade table earlier, but as last night showed he is back in the rotation there now. I'm not sure what we could offer Atlanta to get him to be honest, especially if we send a first to get Murray. Our shooting was expected to be a problem from the start, but to be honest most of us felt Tatum would be shooting better and Brown would be playing in more games. Do we win last night if Brown was playing and Tatum was shooting better? in the end I think it gets down to what each of us had an expectation for this team, this year. New, first time head coach. getting rid of some of Ainges' recent moves (Kemba, Thompson, Fournier), with limited cap space to add talent. we're hanging around .500 right now, with was what we were last year...a.500 team. I believe that's about what we could have expected, especially early in the year. Add Browns missing so many games , Tatum's shooting funk and the regression of Pritchard, I think we're damn lucky to be where we are. Now if someone felt this team was a championship contender this year, then i suppose one would be highly disappointed to date. I know Celtics fans like to say, " it's all about Championships In Boston". But is it? I mean we've won exactly ONE in the past 34 years by my count! its not lowered expectations , it's REAL ones to me. Wow, not one thing you said is wrong. I thoroughly agree. We have to get creative in upgrading the roster. We have to either use a future 1st round pick for a player like Reddish (or someone in his mold) if we are looking to get Murray (which also will require a sooner 1st rounder) or trade a player who could fetch us a 1st rounder (maybe Smart) or if we took back a bad contract. I think some folks thought we'd be better than last year merely on the development expected from the Jays. But we're seeing that isn't working out as "expected". Losing both Kemba and Fournier meant we had no true 3rd scorer and we're seeing the impact of that, especially with Tatum and Brown's challenges.
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Post by kyceltic on Nov 18, 2021 11:31:30 GMT -5
Taum, player of the game, 34 points in yet another losing effort...dont think he is long for this town... You very well could be right!
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Post by kyceltic on Nov 18, 2021 11:40:02 GMT -5
I said some say Smart is the heart and soul and others say he is a $hitty shooter and over rated ( or something like that). Just as a comparison to the old Rondo wars of old. I came up with a fair trade to get Murray (not sure the Spurs would go along). Reddish was supposedly on the trade table earlier, but as last night showed he is back in the rotation there now. I'm not sure what we could offer Atlanta to get him to be honest, especially if we send a first to get Murray. Our shooting was expected to be a problem from the start, but to be honest most of us felt Tatum would be shooting better and Brown would be playing in more games. Do we win last night if Brown was playing and Tatum was shooting better? in the end I think it gets down to what each of us had an expectation for this team, this year. New, first time head coach. getting rid of some of Ainges' recent moves (Kemba, Thompson, Fournier), with limited cap space to add talent. we're hanging around .500 right now, with was what we were last year...a.500 team. I believe that's about what we could have expected, especially early in the year. Add Browns missing so many games , Tatum's shooting funk and the regression of Pritchard, I think we're damn lucky to be where we are. Now if someone felt this team was a championship contender this year, then i suppose one would be highly disappointed to date. I know Celtics fans like to say, " it's all about Championships In Boston". But is it? I mean we've won exactly ONE in the past 34 years by my count! its not lowered expectations , it's REAL ones to me. Wow, not one thing you said is wrong. I thoroughly agree. We have to get creative in upgrading the roster. We have to either use a future 1st round pick for a player like Reddish (or someone in his mold) if we are looking to get Murray (which also will require a sooner 1st rounder) or trade a player who could fetch us a 1st rounder (maybe Smart) or if we took back a bad contract. I think some folks thought we'd be better than last year merely on the development expected from the Jays. But we're seeing that isn't working out as "expected". Losing both Kemba and Fournier meant we had no true 3rd scorer and we're seeing the impact of that, especially with Tatum and Brown's challenges. would love to have Murray or Reddish, but we still would need shooters! Collins, Bogdonavich and Huerter were 10 for 18 shooting threes last night! If Tatum and Brown had guys who could do that, the season would turn around pretty quickly!
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Post by dfries13 on Nov 18, 2021 12:08:59 GMT -5
Didnt know my children have TVs . i have none i follow these simple rules Blow up your TV throw away your paper Go to the country, build you a home Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches Try an find Jesus on your own
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Post by dfries13 on Nov 18, 2021 12:26:26 GMT -5
man you guys are reactionary around here...LOL. I told ya all the other day we would lose this one. not sure why all the angst about it? some wanna trade everyone now....LOL. I am on record as saying Tatum is more Melo than Kobe, but I also understand management is not going to trade him. I actually like Brown more myself, because I think he plays harder. Injuries may be a concern though for sure. Smart is like the old Rondo arguments amongst Boston fans to me. He's either the heart and soul or a $hitty shooting trouble maker...no place in between to be. with that all said Instead of giving my take in the game (nothing new anyway), I will give you a shake things up move to ponder (and dismiss of course). No its not Simmons coming here ( I think he ends up in Sacramento now for Fox)...nor am I going to rehash my dream of Dame coming to be batman to Tatum's robin. I give you a modified one that meets some current NBA rumors right now. Smart, Juancho (21.3M) and next years first to SA for D. Murray and B. Forbes (19.9M) SA is over $5M BELOW the tax line so the additional salary doesn't effect them there, They have White at PG with Murray now and both got paid. Smarts' defense/ demeanor would fit well with Pop. They need more help up front and Juanchos' deal is not guaranteed after this season. They get a first from Boston. Boston gets a true PG for Smart under a similar deal( two years less than Smarts) Forbes can shoot, but SA has a glut of younger options and he isn't playing much for them now. Forbes is an expiring deal with no bird rights. enjoy! Cruel we are not just reactionary ill take this trade.. Still need a healthy young big however Stevens is on his way out and one more year of over payin Horford..Maybe with Stevens and Ainge both gone we can lure a top FA.. With Brown healthy were a 7 seed this year at best with maybe a 520 record and lucky to make the 2nd round. Two options blow it up trade Brown or Tatum or set Horford Schroder and the Williams brothers and tank... Schroder wasn't the answer and he won't be back We could use a top 10 pick or two Its a 3 year window at best
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Post by drewski6 on Nov 18, 2021 12:56:35 GMT -5
I think it's time the Celtics look to bring in more talented and skilled players. We need less "heart-and-soul" type players. We need less hard-nosed smart 6'6" pseudo big men like GWill. Keep the "heart-and-soul" player and give me a bonafide 40% 3-point shooter that will make you pay to leave him open. The pseudo big man can be the 12th guy on the bench. I want a shooter (or a professional scorer), a facilitator who can shoot/score, a big who can be counted on NOT to need days off, and all of them capable of moving their feet to play solid team defense. Heart and soul is no replacement for talent, agreed.
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Post by drewski6 on Nov 18, 2021 13:02:30 GMT -5
Some good points, and some I dont agree with.
I said after 2 games, and it holds true - this team is the Jaylen Browns. Hes not Jordan, but his importance to this team with vs without him is starting to look like Bulls vs Bulls w/ Jordan having the night off. He's everything.
I wanted to trade RWill in the offseason because I think we could have gotten a lot for him. If we still, can Id look into it.
Smarts complete lack of offense is killing us. As is the bench. Nesmith is lost, Smart is awful offensively.
I dont think bringing in a big is the answer, unless its Vooch, but if we get somebody it needs to be a score first guy, regardless of position- because we just dont have firepower and you cant win without firepower.
Grant is a PF/C. Hes undersized, but hes just not quick enough on his feet to play any other position. Hes fine as a backup big, thats not whats hurting us.
Its the complete lack or shooting and scoring. You just cant hang with a team like Atl when you have such little offense.
We'll see what kind of condition Jaylen is in upon his return. If his injury is something that will have to be managed all year, we arent going anywhere - and should look to trade. Id trade RWill and Smart (preferably together) first.
Team is not going to give up on Tatum, and I dont think we should. But if Brown is going to be banged up all season, Tatum simply isnt enough firepower. And honestly, we prob still dont have enough firepower if Tatum starts playing like himself and Jay comes back.
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