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Post by kyceltic on Aug 24, 2020 9:46:10 GMT -5
What a great game and series. Love that Kemba!! It's too bad that Brett Brown will get fired. I always thought he did a good job. Big changes coming up for the Sixers. Who stays and who goes? Keep Embiid, trade Horford (if you can), trade Simmons (if you can). Keep Harris and Richardson. Or, will they just trade Embiid and keep everyone else. Bring on the Raps. I think we can take them. Is it still another 3 weeks for Hayward? We have to watch the back court for TOR. They are playing well. Who says small ball doesn't work... ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) LOL It's very unlikely the Sixers will be able to trade Horford. Not in this economy! Or Harris!
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 24, 2020 9:47:56 GMT -5
The question for the Sixers is to be or not Toby? Keep your day job!
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 24, 2020 9:59:00 GMT -5
As Hedley and I have often said, Kemba is worth every penny he earns! We have a 3 headed monster, to try and match up with! Any two can pop you for 30 and the other can go off for 20! I predict Celtics in 6!
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Post by fierce on Aug 24, 2020 10:00:19 GMT -5
As Hedley and I have often said, Kemba is worth every penny he earns! We have a 3 headed monster, to try and match up with! Any two can pop you for 30 and the other can go off for 20! I predict Celtics in 6! 4 heads if Hayward returns.
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 24, 2020 10:00:39 GMT -5
Although the Clippers up up 2-1 in the series, Dallas is up now 8 points but still can lose of course. I mean Dallas ? But they could go 2-2. But, even if they win which they should, I don’t think the Clippers can beat the Lakers so we may need to do so. Clippers will most certainly beat the Lakers...Lakers have a lot of issues and Kawhi will expose them all...he is the best player on the planet...very quietly... Not with the overrated Doc Rivers trying to coach!
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Post by petey62 on Aug 24, 2020 10:14:42 GMT -5
Fierce, I know it was against the Nets, but are you still in the camp that the Celtics have nothing to worry about with the Raptors?
I believe I'm an unbiased, realistic poster and I honestly don't agree with your assessment that we will have no trouble with Toronto.
I hope you're right but I'm not so sure you know what you're talking about.
WHY should the Celtics not worry about Toronto? And please don't say Lowry's ankle injury.
I see a dogfight of a 7 game series.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Aug 24, 2020 10:37:07 GMT -5
So, according to all my buds here, it's Embiid that has to go. Multiple suitors here, folks. Swap Embiid for Rudy Gobert. Both teams are better, IMO. Many teams would give PHI a lot to get the guy, again, in my opinion
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Post by cole on Aug 24, 2020 10:41:19 GMT -5
So, according to all my buds here, it's Embiid that has to go. Multiple suitors here, folks. Swap Embiid for Rudy Gobert. Both teams are better, IMO. Many teams would give PHI a lot to get the guy, again, in my opinion If phili lost embiid for gobert, they would be scoring and allowing like 70pts per game! All d
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Post by fierce on Aug 24, 2020 11:03:03 GMT -5
Fierce, I know it was against the Nets, but are you still in the camp that the Celtics have nothing to worry about with the Raptors? I believe I'm an unbiased, realistic poster and I honestly don't agree with your assessment that we will have no trouble with Toronto. I hope you're right but I'm not so sure you know what you're talking about. WHY should the Celtics not worry about Toronto? And please don't say Lowry's ankle injury. I see a dogfight of a 7 game series. 1. Celts better team compared to last March or February. 2. Celts have more weapons. 3. Celts have size advantage over Toronto. That means the Celts can play them straight up, no need to double team. 4. Toronto does not have Kawhi anymore. The Raptors are just not the same team without Kawhi.
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Post by fierce on Aug 24, 2020 11:16:43 GMT -5
It's all about match-ups.
Toronto just doesn't match-up well against the Celts.
Both their starting guards are midgets.
Siakam, a SF, is playing PF.
Marc Gasol is old.
Kawhi is gone.
I just don't see why the Celts would have trouble with Toronto.
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Post by petey62 on Aug 24, 2020 11:43:39 GMT -5
Fierce, outside of Dame and McCollum, there might not be a guard tandem playing better right now than Lowry and Van Vfleet.
It will be a battle between a healthy Lowry and Kemba. Tatum and Brown won't have it as easy with Siakam and Anunoby as they did against Richardson/Horford/Thybulle/Harris.
Gasol is old but he can still play. I guess you're suggesting Theis will dominate that matchup?
Who is our PF? I fail to see the relevance of your point that Siakam is playing PF when he's a SF. That's what either Jaylen or Tatum are doing so what's the difference?
And we have no counter, without Hayward, for Norman Powell and Serge Ibaka coming off the bench.
Toronto's front line is Siakam (6'9"), Gasol (6'11"), and Anunoby (6'7") so where is this "size advantage" you speak of?
Kawhi has been gone all season and they are still the number 2 seed in the east. I think it's time we stop underestimating this team, especially in a second round playoff series.
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Post by kyceltic on Aug 24, 2020 12:18:44 GMT -5
Fierce, outside of Dame and McCollum, there might not be a guard tandem playing better right now than Lowry and Van Vfleet. It will be a battle between a healthy Lowry and Kemba. Tatum and Brown won't have it as easy with Siakam and Anunoby as they did against Richardson/Horford/Thybulle/Harris. Gasol is old but he can still play. I guess you're suggesting Theis will dominate that matchup? Who is our PF? I fail to see the relevance of your point that Siakam is playing PF when he's a SF. That's what either Jaylen or Tatum are doing so what's the difference? And we have no counter, without Hayward, for Norman Powell and Serge Ibaka coming off the bench. Toronto's front line is Siakam (6'9"), Gasol (6'11"), and Anunoby (6'7") so where is this "size advantage" you speak of? Kawhi has been gone all season and they are still the number 2 seed in the east. I think it's time we stop underestimating this team, especially in a second round playoff series. You re starting to scare Me! If Tatum plays like the best player on the floor, I predict, we win in 6!
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Post by hedleylamarr on Aug 24, 2020 12:19:02 GMT -5
TOR will be a very very tough out, let's not kid ourselves
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 24, 2020 12:33:14 GMT -5
Toronto's best player is Fred VanFleet. And anyone who thinks Toronto will be cakewalk is probably underestimating how much FVF has grown. He's prob my pick for most improved player in the East - actually, I take that back - Tatum is. But FVF showed enough progression this year, that the award would have been his - had Tatum not emerged as a full blown superstar this year - which he has (winks at Fierce).
That being said - love ya Petey - but I think you are overestimating Siakam and Anu. I can see how they would appear to be a close comparable to Jayson and Jaylen. Similar bodies, good defenders, athletic - all 4. But Siakam and Anu are not Jayson and Jaylen. And to your q about the difference between Siakam and Tatum - there are 2. Efficiency and versatility.
1-on-1 Tatum is going to make you pay - he can just beat you in so many different ways. Siakam isnt that player. Tatum can score anytime he touches the ball, Siakam isnt that player. If the game turns into Tatum (w Siakam covering him) vs Siakam (w Brown covering him) - I like our chances. Siakam is a scorer, no doubt-but he's not as efficient as Tatum has been recently.
Toronto puts up points. But their half-court offense is a bit overrated. They get so many points in transition, that they drop 140 often...And when you see 140 - anybody would think - wow , these guys can score. And they can. But their lofty point totals generally come from transition. When you score in transition - not only are you scoring - but you are scoring without taking any time off the clock. So the games tend to end up high-scoring.
And to that point, I'd like to point out - that we run very well too. Losing Gordon hurts here - but the Jays, Kemba, and Theiss can all run. And they dont give up on plays. Toronto can outrun most teams in the East - but we are hard to run against. So thats gonna hurt them.
In the half-court (when we have the ball), Kemba vs Lowry is going to be key. Gasol isnt laterally quick enough to defend the rim against Kemba. So if Lowry cant keep Kemba in front of him - Kemba is gonna get to the hole. Jaylen will probably get to the hole too (but not as easily cuz Jaylen uses more of a straight-line attack, whereas Kemba will juke you).
In the half-court (when they have the ball) - FVF is going to be key. They need him to facilitate. Putting the ball in Siakams hands and then saying "do your thing" is not the same as putting the ball in Tatums hands and saying "do your thing." Jayson is better at creating his own opportunities. As is Jaylen. There are players on Toronto that can beat you one-on-one in the half court - but not as efficiently or consistently as Tatum.
Tatum has left Siakam in the dust. They are no longer comparable.
But they arent a cakewalk. Like I said, I can see Lowry giving us trouble when we have the ball in half-court. And FVF has emerged as a really really good facilitator. Their guards are key. But I dont think they'll be able to stop Tatum. Thybulle is a very very good defender. Harris is a good defender too. And they couldnt even slow Tatum.
Tatum will be the best player on the court - and in basketball - thats usually who wins. Not taking them lightly, but C's in 7.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 24, 2020 12:41:22 GMT -5
If Tatum has the ball in iso against Siakam, Tatum is going to score on 70% of those touches. If Siakam has the ball in iso against Brown, Siakam is going to score on 50% of those touches. I think that will be the difference.
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Post by cole on Aug 24, 2020 13:12:20 GMT -5
Toronto's best player is Fred VanFleet. And anyone who thinks Toronto will be cakewalk is probably underestimating how much FVF has grown. He's prob my pick for most improved player in the East - actually, I take that back - Tatum is. But FVF showed enough progression this year, that the award would have been his - had Tatum not emerged as a full blown superstar this year - which he has (winks at Fierce). That being said - love ya Petey - but I think you are overestimating Siakam and Anu. I can see how they would appear to be a close comparable to Jayson and Jaylen. Similar bodies, good defenders, athletic - all 4. But Siakam and Anu are not Jayson and Jaylen. And to your q about the difference between Siakam and Tatum - there are 2. Efficiency and versatility. 1-on-1 Tatum is going to make you pay - he can just beat you in so many different ways. Siakam isnt that player. Tatum can score anytime he touches the ball, Siakam isnt that player. If the game turns into Tatum (w Siakam covering him) vs Siakam (w Brown covering him) - I like our chances. Siakam is a scorer, no doubt-but he's not as efficient as Tatum has been recently. Toronto puts up points. But their half-court offense is a bit overrated. They get so many points in transition, that they drop 140 often...And when you see 140 - anybody would think - wow , these guys can score. And they can. But their lofty point totals generally come from transition. When you score in transition - not only are you scoring - but you are scoring without taking any time off the clock. So the games tend to end up high-scoring. And to that point, I'd like to point out - that we run very well too. Losing Gordon hurts here - but the Jays, Kemba, and Theiss can all run. And they dont give up on plays. Toronto can outrun most teams in the East - but we are hard to run against. So thats gonna hurt them. In the half-court (when we have the ball), Kemba vs Lowry is going to be key. Gasol isnt laterally quick enough to defend the rim against Kemba. So if Lowry cant keep Kemba in front of him - Kemba is gonna get to the hole. Jaylen will probably get to the hole too (but not as easily cuz Jaylen uses more of a straight-line attack, whereas Kemba will juke you). In the half-court (when they have the ball) - FVF is going to be key. They need him to facilitate. Putting the ball in Siakams hands and then saying "do your thing" is not the same as putting the ball in Tatums hands and saying "do your thing." Jayson is better at creating his own opportunities. As is Jaylen. There are players on Toronto that can beat you one-on-one in the half court - but not as efficiently or consistently as Tatum. Tatum has left Siakam in the dust. They are no longer comparable. But they arent a cakewalk. Like I said, I can see Lowry giving us trouble when we have the ball in half-court. And FVF has emerged as a really really good facilitator. Their guards are key. But I dont think they'll be able to stop Tatum. Thybulle is a very very good defender. Harris is a good defender too. And they couldnt even slow Tatum. Tatum will be the best player on the court - and in basketball - thats usually who wins. Not taking them lightly, but C's in 7. I knew FVV was destined for greatness the first time i saw him as a wsu rookie. I told my ping pong partner they had an nba level pg. He laughed at the time.
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Post by petey62 on Aug 24, 2020 13:38:18 GMT -5
Last time I looked, Siakam was the starter with Kemba in the NBA All Star game. Tatum has been playing great basketball in 3 of our playoff wins against Philly but I just don't see the obvious and apparent decisive advantage he has over Siakam.
I honestly question any argument when, as part of that argument, it says Tobias Harris is a good defender. Thybulle is a hard worker defensively but he's still a young rookie. That is a HUGE difference from being defended by Siakam and Anunoby, and then throw in Ibaka. Cole, I'm not saying they are comparable. I'm saying they will defend Tatum and Brown a whole lot more effectively than did Philly with Richardson/Thybulle/Horford/Harris. I simply don't believe there isn't anything to worry about with Toronto.
I totally disagree that Tatum has left Siakam in the dust. He has left Siakam in the dust since when? The All Star break? Since when? The restart?
The Raptors are very capable of winning a series against us. Again, this started out as Fierce saying we have nothing to worry about with the Raptors.
I simply disagree but, like I told him, I hope he's right.
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Post by Cabutan on Aug 24, 2020 13:38:23 GMT -5
Well if we dismantle the raptors are we going to say that they suck pretty bad? Only if Lowry or siakem blow out a knee. well..we have hayward with a blown ankle
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Post by cole on Aug 24, 2020 13:43:37 GMT -5
true, but we have other stars. basically they have two. I was trying more to draw a parallel with phili who had two stars and lost one.
The way I see it, during the regular season the raps won a lot of games by being young, fresh, and deep against tired teams. That accounts for a lot of their record. Playoffs tempo slows down, rotations shorten. Half court is more important.
I still don't think it will be easy, but that's what I see as our advantage. We're more of a playoff-built team
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Post by Cabutan on Aug 24, 2020 13:44:31 GMT -5
Fierce, I know it was against the Nets, but are you still in the camp that the Celtics have nothing to worry about with the Raptors? I believe I'm an unbiased, realistic poster and I honestly don't agree with your assessment that we will have no trouble with Toronto. I hope you're right but I'm not so sure you know what you're talking about. WHY should the Celtics not worry about Toronto? And please don't say Lowry's ankle injury. I see a dogfight of a 7 game series. Celtics in 5. Easy. I just see the Cs playing so confident right now. Sharing the ball, adjusting defensively, Tatum has literally taken his skills a notch up, kemba looks comfortable...the list goes on. Brad so far has made great moves. He has really nailed the rotations. But I do see focus. I saw Toronto play a few times and to be honest, they havent changed much. Their game is scrappy. They defend well. Other than that, i would be pretty pissed if anouby makes an impact or powell or terence because we have better players. Last time we played them, they went to dirty playing style out of desperation.
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Post by Cabutan on Aug 24, 2020 13:48:25 GMT -5
The one guy i see coming out swinging is gasol and we have to be ready for his dirty playing. Nurse has them well advised that for them to win, they have to play physical, you watch.
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Post by petey62 on Aug 24, 2020 14:12:00 GMT -5
true, but we have other stars. basically they have two. I was trying more to draw a parallel with phili who had two stars and lost one. The way I see it, during the regular season the raps won a lot of games by being young, fresh, and deep against tired teams. That accounts for a lot of their record. Playoffs tempo slows down, rotations shorten. Half court is more important. I still don't think it will be easy, but that's what I see as our advantage. We're more of a playoff-built team I guess I'll just hope you guys are right because your arguments are absolutely without merit. How did the Raptors win a lot of games during the regular season by being young when Lowry is 34, Gasol is 35, and ibaka is 30? Even Siakam and Van Vleet are 26 (older young guys) so I can't quite grasp your argument for the regular season wins by the Raptors. And how many of their 53 wins did that account for? No offense Cole, but you have to have a better argument than that. I think they have one thing that we don't have and that can be dangerous. That is a "huge chip on their shoulders". Everyone has counted them out because Kawhi is gone. They shouldn't even be here. But low and behold, they have this season's best coach and they won 53 games. To me, aint nothing gonna be easy about this upcoming series. The only thing that could impact that is the ankle of Kyle Lowry.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 24, 2020 14:16:34 GMT -5
Last time I looked, Siakam was the starter with Kemba in the NBA All Star game. Tatum has been playing great basketball in 3 of our playoff wins against Philly but I just don't see the obvious and apparent decisive advantage he has over Siakam. I honestly question any argument when, as part of that argument, it says Tobias Harris is a good defender. Thybulle is a hard worker defensively but he's still a young rookie. That is a HUGE difference from being defended by Siakam and Anunoby, and then throw in Ibaka. Cole, I'm not saying they are comparable. I'm saying they will defend Tatum and Brown a whole lot more effectively than did Philly with Richardson/Thybulle/Horford/Harris. I simply don't believe there isn't anything to worry about with Toronto. I totally disagree that Tatum has left Siakam in the dust. He has left Siakam in the dust since when? The All Star break? Since when? The restart? The Raptors are very capable of winning a series against us. Again, this started out as Fierce saying we have nothing to worry about with the Raptors. I simply disagree but, like I told him, I hope he's right. Im not saying it will be a cakewalk, but I do think Tatum has blown by Siakam. Siakam can struggle in half-court with the ball in his hands. He cant score from anywhere on anyone, like Tatum can. Personally, Ive seen enough of Tatum to promote him. Playoffs last year - Tatum was capable of taking over a game, but not a series against a good team. He'd need help on some nights. But I dont think this will ever be the case again. I think Tatum has entered that next level where he is going to always be a nightmare. Sure - he may have some nights when he shoots 7-20 and not 12-19, but in those games - he's still going to get boards and play great D. I think Tatums days of being great one game, but falling back the next and relying on his teammates are a thing of the past. I think he's a nightmare against any team on any night. I dont think there is a GM in the league who would rather have Siakam.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 24, 2020 14:19:13 GMT -5
true, but we have other stars. basically they have two. I was trying more to draw a parallel with phili who had two stars and lost one. The way I see it, during the regular season the raps won a lot of games by being young, fresh, and deep against tired teams. That accounts for a lot of their record. Playoffs tempo slows down, rotations shorten. Half court is more important. I still don't think it will be easy, but that's what I see as our advantage. We're more of a playoff-built team I guess I'll just hope you guys are right because your arguments are absolutely without merit. How did the Raptors win a lot of games during the regular season by being young when Lowry is 34, Gasol is 35, and ibaka is 30? Even Siakam and Van Vleet are 26 (older young guys) so I can't quite grasp your argument for the regular season wins by the Raptors. And how many of their 53 wins did that account for? No offense Cole, but you have to have a better argument than that. I think they have one thing that we don't have and that can be dangerous. That is a "huge chip on their shoulders". Everyone has counted them out because Kawhi is gone. They shouldn't even be here. But low and behold, they have this season's best coach and they won 53 games. To me, aint nothing gonna be easy about this upcoming series. The only thing that could impact that is the ankle of Kyle Lowry. I agree that they are very good. That starting 5 of FVF, Lowry, Anu, Siakam, and Gasol is very good plus they have Ibaka and Powell off the bench. Very good team. But I honestly think Tatum is the best player in this series. If he comes out and plays mediocre in game 1 - I'd be very surprised.
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Post by petey62 on Aug 24, 2020 14:24:06 GMT -5
I believe Tatum is better than Siakam. But I just don't see that huge disparity as some suggest here.
When I think of a young guy being significantly better than another in a very short time, I would say Luka over Tatum or Siakam as examples of one player completely separating himself from other young players. The divide between Luka and those guys is larger than the divide between the two.
I'd love a 4 or 5 game series won by the Celtics. I just don't see it happening.
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