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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 17:42:30 GMT -5
Good point ... I read that C's want a #1 seed and maybe that is their means to get rest.
Last season because of seeding we had the toughest rounds to the finals and no doubt that had more to do with fatigue than the regular season so that could be why Mazz is leaning on the starters in these games.
Well Brown just got some rest by missing the last game. ANd also a few with the face injury. He should be rested up. Smart missed a good amount of time recently, he should be rested up. Do we only mean Tatum? Maybe give him a game off , but its one game.
You're misreading my post.
I'm saying Mazz is intent on leaning on our starters to get the top seed for an easier path to the finals. That will keep them rested for the finals.
I think they don't see the regular season as a big fatigue factor for a young squad as much as facing the best teams in the east for 3 or 4 rounds before a Championship round.
Get to the POs at all cost with a high seed and avoid wearing yourself down playing the worse teams in the POs rather than the best especially in the early rounds.
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 17:44:39 GMT -5
We're worried about fatigue and resting the starters now but Mgmt/Coach will keep leaning on starters for a top seed to avoid fatigue in the playoffs ...
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 17:52:03 GMT -5
Well Brown just got some rest by missing the last game. ANd also a few with the face injury. He should be rested up. Smart missed a good amount of time recently, he should be rested up. Do we only mean Tatum? Maybe give him a game off , but its one game.
You're misreading my post.
I'm saying Mazz is intent on leaning on our starters to get the top seed for an easier path to the finals.
I think they don't see the regular season as a fatigue factor for a young squad as much as facing the best teams in the east for 3 or 4 rounds before a Championship round.
Get to the POs at all cost with a high seed and avoid wearing yourself down playing the worse teams in the POs especially the early rounds.
But Brown and Smart have missed multiple games as of late, so they should be rested up. If you are worried about from here until the playoffs - we still have White and Brogs to spell the 1 through 3 positions. I mean take your pick - either you want the 2 big offense or you dont. If you do, meaning Al and Rob are getting 30 mins each, with another big also getting some - then the minutes remaining for the rest of the team are smaller because you are running 2 bigs. So we're fine. If you dont want the double big - then yeah, we could use another guard/wing player. But we've been running the double big, and its why we cant guard the perimeter or stop turning the ball over.
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 17:55:13 GMT -5
If you are starting Rob, Al and also working in Moose, Luke, Grant, Noel (if we get him), or call up a PF/C from teh G leauge - whatever. If the bigs are taking up 2/5 of the minutes - then Smart, White, Brog, Brown, Tatum are enough. Its 30 mins/game for them, which is a light workload.
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 18:04:51 GMT -5
This is why Barton didnt come here. If you are running the 2 bigs, theres not enough left over minutes outside of the main 5 guards/wings (when healthy). Now sure, if Brown misses a game - youll see some Hauser/PP, maybe a little Grant at the wing.
But when healthy we're plenty deep at guard/wing.
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 18:38:09 GMT -5
You're misreading my post.
I'm saying Mazz is intent on leaning on our starters to get the top seed for an easier path to the finals.
I think they don't see the regular season as a fatigue factor for a young squad as much as facing the best teams in the east for 3 or 4 rounds before a Championship round.
Get to the POs at all cost with a high seed and avoid wearing yourself down playing the worse teams in the POs especially the early rounds.
But Brown and Smart have missed multiple games as of late, so they should be rested up. If you are worried about from here until the playoffs - we still have White and Brogs to spell the 1 through 3 positions. I mean take your pick - either you want the 2 big offense or you dont. If you do, meaning Al and Rob are getting 30 mins each, with another big also getting some - then the minutes remaining for the rest of the team are smaller because you are running 2 bigs. So we're fine. If you dont want the double big - then yeah, we could use another guard/wing player. But we've been running the double big, and its why we cant guard the perimeter or stop turning the ball over.
Drew!
I agree with you that we don't need lots of rest. We are young and a day here or there s/b fine. And Tatum doesn't want to miss games so he must not be tired (though I've heard him say so during an interview but it was just after the game ended). He knows his body and he better know when a day off is called for.
When I say "we" I mean members of the forum for the most part think starters NEED rest and the bench NEEDS more PT. It's hard to disagree with the bench needing more PT and I favor being rested for the playoffs by being a top seeded team in preference to a well rested team that has to face the top teams in each round of the POs.
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 18:42:37 GMT -5
If you are starting Rob, Al and also working in Moose, Luke, Grant, Noel (if we get him), or call up a PF/C from teh G leauge - whatever. If the bigs are taking up 2/5 of the minutes - then Smart, White, Brog, Brown, Tatum are enough. Its 30 mins/game for them, which is a light workload.
OK but you haven't identified YOUR PREFERENCE for the final roster spot!
What do you think they should do with it? A wing or a prayer (Big)?
If you're right that the guards have a light workload and we are sticking with the double-big then I assume you're in favor of Noel or Kabengele or Samanic.
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Post by kyceltic on Feb 28, 2023 18:48:28 GMT -5
To what position are you willing to sink for rest? Can Milwaukee really keep this up? Is it possible giannis isn't really their best player? Those questions go out generally to anyone. Not specifically to cabby we've got 20 games in 40 days, there's plenty of time to rest!
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 19:04:35 GMT -5
This is why Barton didnt come here. If you are running the 2 bigs, theres not enough left over minutes outside of the main 5 guards/wings (when healthy). Now sure, if Brown misses a game - youll see some Hauser/PP, maybe a little Grant at the wing. But when healthy we're plenty deep at guard/wing.
But if he/Raps are eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round of POs how has he benefited?
So he's gotten more minutes there for 20 games or so to boost his ego but where's the payoff?
No ring and no assurance that he gets a LT deal at good $.
I don't get it ... he's never been an All-Star and never won a Championship. So he passed up a chance at a ring for a chance at a contract based on minutes?
Ugh! as Fierce would say.
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 28, 2023 19:47:53 GMT -5
I have a hard time remembering any buy out guys getting another contract more than the MLE in years after to be honest.
maybe there have been and I have forgot them.
so the argument of wanting more playing time to get that next contract after being bought out , may be what they are being told but probably isn't reality.
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Post by kdp59 on Feb 28, 2023 19:52:41 GMT -5
Reggie Jackson is the only one I can come up back in 2020 right now
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 19:59:52 GMT -5
Ice cold in New York: Takeaways from Celtics-Knicks
Boston couldn’t make a shot and saw their win streak snapped at three By Keith P Smith
Brad Penner-USA TODAY Sports
... this wasn’t some disaster loss. The Knicks are good. They’ve been good for a couple of months now. Once New York stopped throwing away games in the final five minutes, their season turned around.
The Celtics lost and they’re no longer atop the East. But the season didn’t end on Monday night, no matter how many people are acting like it did.
There are reasons Boston lost and there are definitely not reasons Boston lost. We’re going to break them down, in attempt to paint a more reasonable picture of the game with a benefit of several hours later and a full re-watch.
Not Reasons Boston Lost
1. The officials.
Let’s get this one out of the way first, since it’s bound to be the most unpopular one of the bunch. The Celtics didn’t lose because of the refs.
Yes, fouls were 22-11. Yes, New York out shot Boston 34-14 in free throw attempts. And, yes, there were even some bad calls.
But having watched the game twice, the Knicks were the aggressors. From the jump, New York was focused on getting in the lane to create scoring opportunities. Boston was content to pass around the perimeter and take three-pointers.
In the first quarter alone, where the tone for the game was set, the Celtics took 12 three-pointers (making just one, but more on that later) and just seven shots in the paint.
Celtics Q1 Shot Chart at Knicks NBA.com
The Knicks took only six three-pointers and took 13 shots in the paint, including eight directly at the rim.
Knicks Q1 Shot Chart vs Celtics NBA.com
That’s basically a completely opposite shot chart. The Knicks, led by Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle, also repeatedly drove to the basket (more on that later too!). For the entire game, New York had almost twice as many drives as Boston did. Things balanced out a bit, as far as the shot profile went, but for the game as a whole, the Celtics took a lot of spot-up and pullup jumpers, while the Knicks hunted for contact.
One last thing: There is no bias against the Celtics from the officials, as far too many Celtics fans suggested across all forms of social media. Through a quarter of the season, Boston allows the fewest free throw attempts per game in the league. They are tied for 23rd in fouls committed per game. Even adjusting for the Celtics relatively slow pace, Boston is 28th in the NBA in opponent’s free throw attempts.
It’s frustrating because the game before this one for Boston was at the Philadelphia 76ers. The Sixers draw a lot of fouls, and the Celtics play into that with their strategy of making Joel Embiid earn points at the line vs giving up easy layups and dunks.
That means in consecutive games, Boston was on the other side of a wide free throw disparity. The 76ers game was, in part, by design. The Knicks game just sort of happened, because New York willed it to happen and the Celtics let them. But nothing suggests that’s there any kind of bias or conspiracy. If anything, the numbers seem to point in the other direction.
Also, blaming the officials for every loss is tiresome and ridiculous behavior. It’s also incredibly hypocritical to laugh at the Los Angeles Lakers for it, and then turning around and mimicking that exact behavior a few weeks later.
2. The effort.
It’s pretty easy to see when Boston is playing with little effort or low energy. This wasn’t that. They just weren’t playing well. On the nights when the effort is bad, the opponent gets a lot of open and wide-open shots. Or the Celtics get crushed on the glass. Neither of those things happened.
The Celtics had some breakdowns defensively and offensively they couldn’t make a jumper to save their lives. But the effort was fine. It was just a night of bad play.
3. Jayson Tatum the basketball player.
Tatum turned in another very good all-around game. He had nine assists (against four turnovers, which isn’t bad) and seven rebounds. Tatum’s individual defense was also pretty good against both Julius Randle (on switches) and RJ Barrett (on straight-up plays).
The place where Tatum fell short was as a scorer, but we’ll get to that next.
Reasons Boston lost
1. Jayson Tatum the scorer.
Tatum has struggled since the All-Star break. He’s shot 36.7% from the floor and just 24.1% from behind the arc in the three games since the break. That poor shooting has seen Tatum drop to 21 points per game over those three games, which is down from his season average of 30.1 points.
It’s a slump and a really rough one. It’s not all that different from the three-game stretch in mid-November where Tatum shot even worse from the field.
On the plus side, Tatum can now impact games when his shot isn’t falling. But Boston needs his shot to fall. Especially in games when Jaylen Brown isn’t playing. The Celtics aren’t a super heliocentric team like some others are, but they need their star to figure it out. It’s too hard to win otherwise.
The good news? History tells us that after these slumps, Tatum tends to go on a hot streak where he can’t miss for weeks.
2. The shooting.
It was more than just Jayson Tatum having an off night from the outside. Boston hit only 21.4% of their three-pointers. That didn’t stop them from taking half of their shots from behind the arc. But the process to get those shots was great. They aren’t looks you really want guys passing up. It’s not like Rob Williams suddenly started launching threes off the dribble or something. These were good shooters, missing good shots.
Here’s the real killer: Boston generated 16 open three-pointers and 19 wide-open three-pointers. That’s great!
Boston made a total of eight of those 35 shots. That’s not so great!
Tatum was 1-for-9. Marcus Smart was 2-for-7. Derrick White was 0-for-5. Sam Hauser was 0-for-3. Even Malcolm Brogdon was a touch under his usual shooting at 2-for-5.
It’s a cliché to say it’s a “make or miss league”, but it’s also true. Boston got good looks for good shooters. They just didn’t make them.
3. Perimeter defense
This one is easy, so we’ll keep it simple. The Celtics allowed the Knicks ballhandlers to get where they wanted all night long. Jalen Brunson did it with craft and guile. Julius Randle did it by bullying his way to his spots. Immanuel Quickley did it by honor his name with his quickness. RJ Barrett was particular effective, but he slithered through defenders to set up good shots too.
Some of that is going to happen. Brunson and Randle are All-Star level guys. Getting to their spots is what they do. But the Celtics made it way too easy on them for most of the night.
It’s no real surprise that the handful of times Boston made a run, it came on the back of getting stops. And those stops came from bogging down the Knicks offense by pressuring the ballhandlers.
The Celtics defense is very good, so we’ll chalk this up to an off night on that end of the floor too. But it’s something to keep an eye on, as the teams Boston will need to beat in the postseason all have good on-ball creators.
4. Rotations.
Mike Muscala got immediately thrown into the fire without so much as a practice with the Celtics. He played 15, 17 and 44 minutes in his first three games with Boston. After that marathon run in that weird game in Milwaukee, Muscala was inactive for the final game before the All-Star break. Then he was a DNP-CD in the first two games out of the break.
On Monday, it seemed like Joe Mazzulla only went to Muscala as a change-up after Blake Griffin was ineffective in the first half. Given how effective Muscala was in the first few games with Boston, it’s odd that he’s not played much since.
Beyond that, Mazzulla was clearly searching throughout this game and trying stuff, but he’s [Mazz] becoming overly reliant on Rob Williams. In seven of Williams’ last eight games, he’s played at least 25 minutes. The only exception was again that weird Milwaukee game where Williams came off the bench for reasons that remain unknown.
Williams is good, but he’s best in shorter stints. In most games where Williams pushes, or plays more than, 30 minutes, his effectiveness falls. And it really falls off the next game.
The Celtics have the depth up front to keep Williams around 24 minutes most nights. A big part of that should involve playing Muscala, especially on nights when no one can make a shot.
What’s Next
The Celtics will be home in Boston for four of their next five games. The challenge? Four of those five games are against playoff teams in the East (Cleveland at home and on the road, Brooklyn and New York in Boston). And the Portland Trail Blazers are fighting for their postseason lives.
That’s a tough stretch, even if most of the games are in Boston. And it’s imperative that the Celtics make the most of the home games. That run is followed by a six-game road trip that will see Boston travel from Atlanta to Sacramento in an 11-day span.
It’s winning time for the Celtics. Their cushion atop the Eastern Conference is gone. Things are far from dire, but if Boston doesn’t want to go to Milwaukee for a Game 7 this spring, they need to take care of their own business in the season’s last 40 days.
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 20:03:22 GMT -5
But Brown and Smart have missed multiple games as of late, so they should be rested up. If you are worried about from here until the playoffs - we still have White and Brogs to spell the 1 through 3 positions. I mean take your pick - either you want the 2 big offense or you dont. If you do, meaning Al and Rob are getting 30 mins each, with another big also getting some - then the minutes remaining for the rest of the team are smaller because you are running 2 bigs. So we're fine. If you dont want the double big - then yeah, we could use another guard/wing player. But we've been running the double big, and its why we cant guard the perimeter or stop turning the ball over.
Drew!
I agree with you that we don't need lots of rest. We are young and a day here or there s/b fine. And Tatum doesn't want to miss games so he must not be tired (though I've heard him say so during an interview but it was just after the game ended). He knows his body and he better know when a day off is called for.
When I say "we" I mean members of the forum for the most part think starters NEED rest and the bench NEEDS more PT. It's hard to disagree with the bench needing more PT and I favor being rested for the playoffs by being a top seeded team in preference to a well rested team that has to face the top teams in each round of the POs.
The bench does need more playing time. Thats what Im saying. White and Brogdon do not get enough minutes. They should be at 30 every night. Theres a difference between bench (rotation) and reserves (outside of the regular rotation). PP / Hauser / Griffin - these guys are reserves. Im not sure about Moose. But wanting to see PP and Hauser more is not about wanting to be rested, its about wanting to give these guys a shot. And they have, and theyve been inconsistent and defensive liabilities. Not saying they cant play if needed, just saying we shouldnt go out of our way to work them in. Maybe they can play decently if given time to develop, but being stuck on a good team that is deep....Its bad luck. It happens. Thems the breaks. Regarding the 15th spot, I dont care. Our rotation is Smart/White/Brogdon/Brown/Tatum/Grant/Al/Horford. Our reserves are: PP/Hauser/Moose/Luke/Griffin. Whomever rounds out the 15 is just riding the pine. The 15th man on your team is not a bench player. Hes really more of a practice squad guy.
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 20:04:08 GMT -5
This is why Barton didnt come here. If you are running the 2 bigs, theres not enough left over minutes outside of the main 5 guards/wings (when healthy). Now sure, if Brown misses a game - youll see some Hauser/PP, maybe a little Grant at the wing. But when healthy we're plenty deep at guard/wing.
But if he/Raps are eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round of POs how has he benefited?
So he's gotten more minutes there for 20 games or so to boost his ego but where's the payoff?
No ring and no assurance that he gets a LT deal at good $.
I don't get it ... he's never been an All-Star and never won a Championship. So he passed up a chance at a ring for a chance at a contract based on minutes?
Ugh! as Fierce would say.
Players want to play.
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 20:08:32 GMT -5
But yeah - I dont care much who gets our 15th spot, but if I had to pick - prob lean towards a big. Solely because - for some reason , Moose has appeared to fall out of favor. THey were all gung ho about using him, then just stopped. So if they arent comfy there- maybe a Noel. Because White and Brogdon can give you 30+. Rwill cannot.
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 20:20:30 GMT -5
Reggie Jackson is the only one I can come up back in 2020 right now
So why'd he go to the Raps over the C's (if we were indeed in the hunt) then?
Did the Raps promise him a contract in the future ... could they offer much more than our DPE?
Is it the Kyrie loyalty or LeBron notice of Boston being racist?
I just want to understand how Green, Ross & Barton all pass this opportunity away for what they chose ... I don't get it!
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 20:36:37 GMT -5
But yeah - I dont care much who gets our 15th spot, but if I had to pick - prob lean towards a big. Solely because - for some reason , Moose has appeared to fall out of favor. THey were all gung ho about using him, then just stopped. So if they arent comfy there- maybe a Noel. Because White and Brogdon can give you 30+. Rwill cannot.
I can go with Noel ... he was my 1st choice ages ago. Probably not quick enough to guard the perimeter but he can get up & down the court without a sack of potatoes on his back.
Kabengele has more of a Rob type of inside game with some perimeter offense. Quicker on his feet and laterally.
Samanic is as good as Kabengele sans the NBA experience but a better 3pt shooter.
If we want a Rob replacement it's either Noel or Kabengele for me. I'd take Samanic if Horford were your concern but I understand your lack of concern as you don't favor the double-big Mazz uses and are content with out guard/wing roster already.
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Post by drewski6 on Feb 28, 2023 20:47:02 GMT -5
But yeah - I dont care much who gets our 15th spot, but if I had to pick - prob lean towards a big. Solely because - for some reason , Moose has appeared to fall out of favor. THey were all gung ho about using him, then just stopped. So if they arent comfy there- maybe a Noel. Because White and Brogdon can give you 30+. Rwill cannot.
I can go with Noel ... he was my 1st choice ages ago. Probably not quick enough to guard the perimeter but he can get up & down the court without a sack of potatoes on his back.
Kabengele has more of a Rob type of inside game with some perimeter offense. Quicker on his feet and laterally.
Samanic is as good as Kabengele sans the NBA experience but a better 3pt shooter.
If we want a Rob replacement it's either Noel or Kabengele for me. I'd take Samanic if Horford were your concern but I understand your lack of concern as you don't favor the double-big Mazz uses and are content with out guard/wing roster already.
Yeah - if I had it my way, RWill would come off the bench to spell Al at C. They would overlap sometimes, but mostly that would be limited to 10 mins/game. However- it appears that we'll use the double big. So Al will start at PF, meaning he cant share the C load w RWill. And centers just cant go as long (generally). Most games , your first 2 substitutions are your sixth man and backup C. Cs are big guys and gas quickly. So even though I dont love it - if we are going to start Al at PF - we need a backup C. And it appears that we still dont know who that is. We've tried Grant, Blake, Luke, Moose, Vonleh .... But I still feel like its not set in stone who that backup C is going to be for the playoffs. I dont think there is any guard we can bring in who will take minutes from our guard rotation of Brown (in a double big, we use him as a guard - which I dont love - but it is what it is), Smart, White, Brog. Theres just less room there for someone to work into the rotation. And because White and Brog are so good, they also spill over into backing up wing in addition to guard. So they provide coverage there too. So I think if we're gonna add someone to the roster, might as well be for the position that is least set.
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Post by dfries13 on Feb 28, 2023 20:48:40 GMT -5
Reggie Jackson is the only one I can come up back in 2020 right now
So why'd he go to the Raps over the C's (if we were indeed in the hunt) then?
Did the Raps promise him a contract in the future ... could they offer much more than our DPE?
Is it the Kyrie loyalty or LeBron notice of Boston being racist?
I just want to understand how Green, Ross & Barton all pass this opportunity away for what they chose ... I don't get it!
Barton stands to get more minutes in Toronto then here is the opinion around the league. He's playing for a 3 year contract and more money. His family financial security is worth more than a ring.. Besides that..We have no clue how much Stevens really wanted Barton We'll see how spunky our team is in a couple months... Stevens might be right might not. One major injury to our top 7 will hurt.. We arn't as deep as folks here let on...No other team is either so it's gonna be a tossup.. Horford or RWilliams go down and were in deep shit.
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 21:21:08 GMT -5
So why'd he go to the Raps over the C's (if we were indeed in the hunt) then?
Did the Raps promise him a contract in the future ... could they offer much more than our DPE?
Is it the Kyrie loyalty or LeBron notice of Boston being racist?
I just want to understand how Green, Ross & Barton all pass this opportunity away for what they chose ... I don't get it!
Barton stands to get more minutes in Toronto then here is the opinion around the league. He's playing for a 3 year contract and more money. His family financial security is worth more than a ring.. Besides that..We have no clue how much Stevens really wanted Barton We'll see how spunky our team is in a couple months... Stevens might be right might not. One major injury to our top 7 will hurt.. We arn't as deep as folks here let on...No other team is either so it's gonna be a tossup.. Horford or RWilliams go down and were in deep shit.
Sounds like you want another big too ... Noel?
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Post by cole on Feb 28, 2023 21:28:16 GMT -5
But if he/Raps are eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round of POs how has he benefited?
So he's gotten more minutes there for 20 games or so to boost his ego but where's the payoff?
No ring and no assurance that he gets a LT deal at good $.
I don't get it ... he's never been an All-Star and never won a Championship. So he passed up a chance at a ring for a chance at a contract based on minutes?
Ugh! as Fierce would say.
Players want to play. If you don't you risk them leaving.
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Post by cole on Feb 28, 2023 21:29:25 GMT -5
Barton stands to get more minutes in Toronto then here is the opinion around the league. He's playing for a 3 year contract and more money. His family financial security is worth more than a ring.. Besides that..We have no clue how much Stevens really wanted Barton We'll see how spunky our team is in a couple months... Stevens might be right might not. One major injury to our top 7 will hurt.. We arn't as deep as folks here let on...No other team is either so it's gonna be a tossup.. Horford or RWilliams go down and were in deep shit.
Sounds like you want another big too ... Noel?
I think he's always wanted Noel. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong
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Post by Admin on Feb 28, 2023 21:32:17 GMT -5
He isn't getting paid a bunch according to this:
and this isn't exactly starter minutes per hoopsrumors.com:
The 32-year-old will add some depth to a Raptors team that has lacked consistent bench production this season. Toronto also ranks just 27th in the NBA in three-point shooting percentage (33.5%), so signing Barton will give the team another outside threat.
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Post by dfries13 on Feb 28, 2023 22:16:09 GMT -5
Sounds like you want another big too ... Noel?
I think he's always wanted Noel. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong Correct. All things considered Noel can give Horford and Rob rest and in an emergency replace Rob. We don' need points need insurance on our bigs. Grant has fell to the pits of hell in Febuary 32% shooting and lots of fouls. Fat asses draw fouls.....sometimes flies too
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Post by cole on Feb 28, 2023 23:41:40 GMT -5
I think he's always wanted Noel. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong Correct. All things considered Noel can give Horford and Rob rest and in an emergency replace Rob. We don' need points need insurance on our bigs. Grant has fell to the pits of hell in Febuary 32% shooting and lots of fouls. Fat asses draw fouls.....sometimes flies too Eww!
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