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Post by elvissurfs on Jun 2, 2022 9:23:31 GMT -5
yet another uncalled for, non-basketball - related comment. Since neither of you are girls, that would be impossible anyway. I appreciate the insults because I disagree with you. Very mature content here.......... That's just puds sense of humor. I've been on the wrong end too. Everyone here likes and respects you and asks about you when you're gone. Let's not all get sideways now. Same team Including me...I have asked about you when you have been scarce on the board... And my comment about not wanting to be on a team coached by you was not a slight about you coaching girls (I think that is great...I was stoked for you when you announced you got a job coaching again after your move East)...It is because I would not have gotten a good chance to prove myself...you don't develop on the bench, you've got to be in the game...now, again, I realize that you disagree, but there are others here who also wonder 'what if' he had gotten more time on the court... I think we will find out next year when he is on another team and he gets to play...Do you remember when Dustin Pedrioa was brought up, and he was not doing well?...Francona stuck with him, despite folks starting to question if he could make it in the bigs, too little, etc...and he ended up having a legendary career with the Sox... Ime is a rookie coach, and he rode his starters, to the detriment of developing the bench... At any rate, sorry to have offended you...and I can't wait until tonight...go Celtics!...
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 2, 2022 9:39:44 GMT -5
Smart on Curry, Tatum or Brown on Clay, Tatum or Brown on Wiggins, RWill on Green, back way off and cover for others, Horford on Looney! Wish we'd have played Nesmith more, he could have helped out in this series! I'm still predicting White to have a big series! Dang right...Nesmith could have been great in this series...fast, energetic, tenacious...effing pisses me off... It shouldnt. Although he is those things and we could prob use the wing depth. Problem is Grant is just much better. Its on the player to improve. Playing time is no guarantee that players will. Look at all the work Grant has put in. Worked on his shot every day, lost weight, learned to move his feet better, got even stronger. Nesmith just doesnt have Grants drive. Which is okay, few do. But it makes Nesmith a bit burried on the post-season depth chart , where benches are short. Next full season, he'll have a chance to showcase if he's made any improvements. And if he looks like the same player, its back to the bench. Again, its on him to improve, not the coach to play him through struggles when theres better options available.
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Post by dfries13 on Jun 2, 2022 9:40:56 GMT -5
Old sayin still holds true.
When the Irish can't find anyone to fight... They fight each other
Edward T. O’Donnell
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 2, 2022 9:41:19 GMT -5
Jared Weiss: Ime Udoka says that Marcus Smart’s rolled ankle will improve over time, but Rob Williams knee will continue to make him day to day throughout the Finals due to the surgery recovery & the bone bruise form colliding with Giannis. Both will be questionable for Game 1 of the Finals. – via Twitter JaredWeissNBA Top Rumors, Ime Udoka, Injuries, Marcus Smart, Boston Celtics Sit them both...play Nesmith...oh, never mind, your wonderful coach never gave him floor time this year... Play Nesmith over Smart? Really? You cant be serious. Ime has done a fantastic job this year, as has Smart. And they are both part of reasons why we are where we are. Why change it now to force minutes to a guy who hasnt earned them? In the NBA finals, no less
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 2, 2022 9:46:00 GMT -5
Because he didn't perform He never was given a chance to get in the flow enough where he could perform...I am so glad I was never on one of the teams you have coached... the difference between the starter and the bench is quite often not much, and quite often a judgement error by the coach...thereby screwing up a player's whole trajectory... I believe this is a commonly held fallacy (not to pick on you specifically). I remember when the Cowboys tried this with a QB. Quincy Carver (or maybe Quincy Carter). THe thought was if you have a prospect and play him early enough when he's young, he's going to get better. And it just doesnt work that way. Playing time and prospect growth are just not as correlated as people think. You can get better in practice, with coaching. And if you arent, theres a problem there that PT is not going to solve. Lets say your average rookie is a 65 overall. That rookie needs to be able to get up to 75 WITHOUT playing time. Listening to the coaches, putting in the gym work, practicing hard. You should expect your youngsters to get better without playing time. Playing time will make them even better, but they have to start the process without it. Unless they are top 8 picks.
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 2, 2022 9:49:24 GMT -5
I believe that was a retaliatory comment based on your continual questioning of my knowledge of the game....it's what's called sarcasm, which is not an insult. " I'm glad I was never on any team you coached" is an insult. Slight difference. And, I've asked very nicely Why don't you two rent a motel room together for a few nights and hammer things out.
So E is glad that he was never on a team that Heds coached?
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
OK.... so the correct comeback is..... (drum roll) "That makes two of us!" (End of story)
Pud
No, their back and forth adds to the forum. Im enjoying reading it. Generally, I agree with Hedley, but that doesnt mean that Elvis isnt touching upon solid points. Im just glad the debate went back to civil after looking like it had potential to go the other way.
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Post by hedleylamarr on Jun 2, 2022 9:50:17 GMT -5
That's just puds sense of humor. I've been on the wrong end too. Everyone here likes and respects you and asks about you when you're gone. Let's not all get sideways now. Same team Including me...I have asked about you when you have been scarce on the board... And my comment about not wanting to be on a team coached by you was not a slight about you coaching girls (I think that is great...I was stoked for you when you announced you got a job coaching again after your move East)...It is because I would not have gotten a good chance to prove myself...you don't develop on the bench, you've got to be in the game...now, again, I realize that you disagree, but there are others here who also wonder 'what if' he had gotten more time on the court... I think we will find out next year when he is on another team and he gets to play...Do you remember when Dustin Pedrioa was brought up, and he was not doing well?...Francona stuck with him, despite folks starting to question if he could make it in the bigs, too little, etc...and he ended up having a legendary career with the Sox... Ime is a rookie coach, and he rode his starters, to the detriment of developing the bench... At any rate, sorry to have offended you...and I can't wait until tonight...go Celtics!... I actually try to play everyone. I get 10 in every game, minimum. Everyone gets a chance with me. John Wooden said, "sometime my chance will come, and when it does, I need to make the most of it." That's me, I'm not Ime. Being a rookie coach does not make him a bad coach or a moron. Just a rookie. And, I really think he wanted Nesmith in the rotation, he just kept getting hurt, like Romeo did last year. It's the playoffs, and GSW will play about 8 tonight. I really don't think he "rode his starters into the ground." We are still here, after two long 7 game series in a row. And now ready for a track meet vs GSW. You disagree on Nesmith, and that's fine. I think he got chances and didn't perform. I'll bet it's 50-50 on that. Yes, I remember Pedroia. I don't think it's a good comparison because Tito didn't have anyone else to play second base at the time, while Ime has two guys named Brown and Tatum that Nesmith isn't as good as. I like the kid, and hope he comes through next year, since we have no FRDP. But it's pointless arguing about it, as he's NOT going to get minutes now. As to why, again, probably a split.............go Celtics!
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 2, 2022 9:50:29 GMT -5
I too started to see a spark in Nesmith and was hoping he could run with it. I also agree injuries slowed him at the most inopportune time. I actually like his shooting better than PP's, and obviously his D much more as well. I would think next season is make or break for him. C's should get him onto the summer league team and make him the focal point of the summer team offense. get his confidence and stroke going. he is exactly what the team needs if he can ever reach his full ceiling. for me, it is incumbent on the C's staff to bring that out of him Are you sure that what you think the team needs in Nesmith, they dont actually have in Grant.
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Post by rkarp1 on Jun 2, 2022 9:53:09 GMT -5
He never was given a chance to get in the flow enough where he could perform...I am so glad I was never on one of the teams you have coached... the difference between the starter and the bench is quite often not much, and quite often a judgement error by the coach...thereby screwing up a player's whole trajectory... I believe this is a commonly held fallacy (not to pick on you specifically). I remember when the Cowboys tried this with a QB. Quincy Carver (or maybe Quincy Carter). THe thought was if you have a prospect and play him early enough when he's young, he's going to get better. And it just doesnt work that way. Playing time and prospect growth are just not as correlated as people think. You can get better in practice, with coaching. And if you arent, theres a problem there that PT is not going to solve. Lets say your average rookie is a 65 overall. That rookie needs to be able to get up to 75 WITHOUT playing time. Listening to the coaches, putting in the gym work, practicing hard. You should expect your youngsters to get better without playing time. Playing time will make them even better, but they have to start the process without it. Unless they are top 8 picks. I thought he was showing that improvement until injuries. I saw in a 20 day window in December, he was getting some minutes and playing good defense, and taking and making shots. (12/3-12/22) I am not making a case he should play over Grant I am not even making a case he should play over PP right now. but longer term, I see him with a higher ceiling than PP if they can bring it out of him.
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Post by rkarp1 on Jun 2, 2022 9:54:15 GMT -5
I too started to see a spark in Nesmith and was hoping he could run with it. I also agree injuries slowed him at the most inopportune time. I actually like his shooting better than PP's, and obviously his D much more as well. I would think next season is make or break for him. C's should get him onto the summer league team and make him the focal point of the summer team offense. get his confidence and stroke going. he is exactly what the team needs if he can ever reach his full ceiling. for me, it is incumbent on the C's staff to bring that out of him Are you sure that what you think the team needs in Nesmith, they dont actually have in Grant. no, Grant does not have the athleticism to guard quick wings. for me it is not Grant or Nesmith. it is PP or Nesmith
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Post by cole on Jun 2, 2022 9:56:34 GMT -5
I believe this is a commonly held fallacy (not to pick on you specifically). I remember when the Cowboys tried this with a QB. Quincy Carver (or maybe Quincy Carter). THe thought was if you have a prospect and play him early enough when he's young, he's going to get better. And it just doesnt work that way. Playing time and prospect growth are just not as correlated as people think. You can get better in practice, with coaching. And if you arent, theres a problem there that PT is not going to solve. Lets say your average rookie is a 65 overall. That rookie needs to be able to get up to 75 WITHOUT playing time. Listening to the coaches, putting in the gym work, practicing hard. You should expect your youngsters to get better without playing time. Playing time will make them even better, but they have to start the process without it. Unless they are top 8 picks. I thought he was showing that improvement until injuries. I saw in a 20 day window in December, he was getting some minutes and playing good defense, and taking and making shots. (12/3-12/22) I am not making a case he should play over Grant I am not even making a case he should play over PP right now. but longer term, I see him with a higher ceiling than PP if they can bring it out of him. If he could get his touch back and learn the system...his physical tools dwarf pp and even grant in a way.
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Post by rkarp1 on Jun 2, 2022 10:46:47 GMT -5
I thought he was showing that improvement until injuries. I saw in a 20 day window in December, he was getting some minutes and playing good defense, and taking and making shots. (12/3-12/22) I am not making a case he should play over Grant I am not even making a case he should play over PP right now. but longer term, I see him with a higher ceiling than PP if they can bring it out of him. If he could get his touch back and learn the system...his physical tools dwarf pp and even grant in a way. he needs to play. unfortunately, now is not the time given his inactivity. it will have to start with summer league. imo, all his issues are mental. physically, he can play in the league in that 7th thru 9th spot. down the road maybe 6th.
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Post by cole on Jun 2, 2022 10:47:44 GMT -5
If he could get his touch back and learn the system...his physical tools dwarf pp and even grant in a way. he needs to play. unfortunately, now is not the time given his inactivity. it will have to start with summer league. imo, all his issues are mental. physically, he can play in the league in that 7th thru 9th spot. down the road maybe 6th. How many summer leagues is it going to take?
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Post by rkarp1 on Jun 2, 2022 11:39:29 GMT -5
he needs to play. unfortunately, now is not the time given his inactivity. it will have to start with summer league. imo, all his issues are mental. physically, he can play in the league in that 7th thru 9th spot. down the road maybe 6th. How many summer leagues is it going to take? he gets 1 more shot. if not, I assume he is a roster casualty
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Post by elvissurfs on Jun 2, 2022 20:14:43 GMT -5
Dang right...Nesmith could have been great in this series...fast, energetic, tenacious...effing pisses me off... It shouldnt. Although he is those things and we could prob use the wing depth. Problem is Grant is just much better. Its on the player to improve. Playing time is no guarantee that players will. Look at all the work Grant has put in. Worked on his shot every day, lost weight, learned to move his feet better, got even stronger. Nesmith just doesnt have Grants drive. Which is okay, few do. But it makes Nesmith a bit burried on the post-season depth chart , where benches are short. Next full season, he'll have a chance to showcase if he's made any improvements. And if he looks like the same player, its back to the bench. Again, its on him to improve, not the coach to play him through struggles when theres better options available. Ouch...Drewski weighs in...
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Post by elvissurfs on Jun 2, 2022 20:16:53 GMT -5
Old sayin still holds true. When the Irish can't find anyone to fight... They fight each other Edward T. O’Donnell Ouch again...
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Post by elvissurfs on Jun 2, 2022 20:19:43 GMT -5
Sit them both...play Nesmith...oh, never mind, your wonderful coach never gave him floor time this year... Play Nesmith over Smart? Really? You cant be serious. Ime has done a fantastic job this year, as has Smart. And they are both part of reasons why we are where we are. Why change it now to force minutes to a guy who hasnt earned them? In the NBA finals, no less In order to rest them both...whatever Drew...
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Post by elvissurfs on Jun 2, 2022 20:21:28 GMT -5
Why don't you two rent a motel room together for a few nights and hammer things out.
So E is glad that he was never on a team that Heds coached?
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
OK.... so the correct comeback is..... (drum roll) "That makes two of us!" (End of story)
Pud
No, their back and forth adds to the forum. Im enjoying reading it. Generally, I agree with Hedley, but that doesnt mean that Elvis isnt touching upon solid points. Im just glad the debate went back to civil after looking like it had potential to go the other way. Lol, thanks...on to the game thread...don't know if anyone actually goes back and reads this stuff, but I like to respond to what folks said earlier...
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 3, 2022 11:57:30 GMT -5
I believe this is a commonly held fallacy (not to pick on you specifically). I remember when the Cowboys tried this with a QB. Quincy Carver (or maybe Quincy Carter). THe thought was if you have a prospect and play him early enough when he's young, he's going to get better. And it just doesnt work that way. Playing time and prospect growth are just not as correlated as people think. You can get better in practice, with coaching. And if you arent, theres a problem there that PT is not going to solve. Lets say your average rookie is a 65 overall. That rookie needs to be able to get up to 75 WITHOUT playing time. Listening to the coaches, putting in the gym work, practicing hard. You should expect your youngsters to get better without playing time. Playing time will make them even better, but they have to start the process without it. Unless they are top 8 picks. I thought he was showing that improvement until injuries. I saw in a 20 day window in December, he was getting some minutes and playing good defense, and taking and making shots. (12/3-12/22) I am not making a case he should play over Grant I am not even making a case he should play over PP right now. but longer term, I see him with a higher ceiling than PP if they can bring it out of him. I do see what you are saying, we'll see. I would agree we could use some athletic wing depth, and maybe he'll be the guy to do it. He'll have to earn it, and I agree it starts with summer league. It should prob be noted that Pritch played 4 years at the NCAA in a highly competitive conf (pac-12) vs nesmith who only did 2 at vandy (weaker competition) and Nesmith is 2 yrs younger. Pritch came in more NBA ready and we expected that.
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Post by drewski6 on Jun 3, 2022 11:59:19 GMT -5
but dont sleep on pritch and grant. These guys had very good college careers (not to put Pritch in the same category as Grant, Pritch had a very good college career, Grant had an unbelievably amazing / elite college career).
They are both very solid bench players. Grant may start in 2 years. But that opens a bench role for Nesmith, if he isnt a roster casualty by then (as you imply).
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