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Post by billge on Aug 4, 2021 15:32:56 GMT -5
I am so glad the Celts are not trying to improve right away like those idiot Lakers, Knicks, Nets,Miami Bulls, et al. We must have a plan to get all our priorities like ducks in a row, and then come out shooting with all the cash in the world,, and no cap problems, just lie when Danny amassed all those draft choices, which he turned into gold, destroying the rest of the league for almost a decade. I especially like the way we sent Horford and those other two big galoots out for seasoning, and now that they have reached there full potential, brought tham back,,At least I think we can get Baynes for one of those Lebron scholarships that pay you off one year after you leave the Lakers. Once again Celts management team are the smartest guys in the room .
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Post by solly on Aug 4, 2021 15:34:43 GMT -5
Durant is the guy I see as never coming here, he just called the city racist 2 months ago. People speculate about Beal, because he’s best friends with the guy that matters most in the Celtics franchise. That means something, could mean a little could mean a lot Beal is currently jumping for joy because the Wizards are bringing in the guy he wants to play with (its Spencer D, not Tatum). It doesnt matter much at all that Tatum is here (for now). And we will see how that goes for a year. Its a chance I take. Or else you wait it out and hope you can sign Tatum. The NBA is right place right time in terms of team building
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Post by croc on Aug 4, 2021 15:34:45 GMT -5
You can easily see who is going to be available.
That doesn't say who want out. Last I checked Harden wasn't a FA.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:35:03 GMT -5
The only possibility I see is Durant. Durant is the guy I see as never coming here, he just called the city racist 2 months ago. People speculate about Beal, because he’s best friends with the guy that matters most in the Celtics franchise. That means something, could mean a little could mean a lot It would cost Beal $50M over the life of the deal to turn down the super max and choose to come to Boston for cap room. Much much more money for him, if he stays or is moved via S+T. And he's been positioning himself for this mega pay day for a while. And Was is trying very hard to make him happy, and the rumor (that is not disproven, no matter what the blowhards on 98.5 say) is he is happy in Was and plans to stay. And even if does move, its wayyyyy more likely to be a S+T. Im not saying we cant get anyone. Im saying we cant get anyone worth getting with cap room. This team is focused on cap room when they should be focused on S+Ts. Thats how the big dogs move around in this league. Because of the rules. THey get way more money that way. None of this is new news. Im beyond shocked that the celtics are prioritizing cap room. Thats just going to lead to overpaid 3rd tier players after the top tier free-agents get moved via S+Ts and the second tier FAs latch on with contenders (which we arent).
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Post by solly on Aug 4, 2021 15:36:15 GMT -5
I am so glad the Celts are not trying to improve right away like those idiot Lakers, Knicks, Nets,Miami Bulls, et al. We must have a plan to get all our priorities like ducks in a row, and then come out shooting with all the cash in the world,, and no cap problems, just lie when Danny amassed all those draft choices, which he turned into gold, destroying the rest of the league for almost a decade. I especially like the way we sent Horford and those other two big galoots out for seasoning, and now that they have reached there full potential, brought tham back,,At least I think we can get Baynes for one of those Lebron scholarships that pay you off one year after you leave the Lakers. Once again Celts management team are the smartest guys in the room . How are the Lakers or Nets any smarter than the Celtics? Cause FAs wanted to go there? What have the knicks, heat and Bulls done? Be irrelevant for years? If you arent a contender, you are in a jumbled pile in the NBA
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:36:42 GMT -5
That doesn't say who want out. Last I checked Harden wasn't a FA. Am I talking to a wall? Guys who want out get traded. Cap room doesnt help you trade for guys. We're talking about cap room, not trades.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:37:31 GMT -5
Im not saying we cant save our team. I am just saying we cant save it with cap room.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:37:59 GMT -5
Dont worry , if you offer Paul Milsap 20m, he might come. Maybe.
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Post by solly on Aug 4, 2021 15:39:05 GMT -5
Durant is the guy I see as never coming here, he just called the city racist 2 months ago. People speculate about Beal, because he’s best friends with the guy that matters most in the Celtics franchise. That means something, could mean a little could mean a lot It would cost Beal $50M over the life of the deal to turn down the super max and choose to come to Boston for cap room. Much much more money for him, if he stays or is moved via S+T. And he's been positioning himself for this mega pay day for a while. And Was is trying very hard to make him happy, and the rumor (that is not disproven, no matter what the blowhards on 98.5 say) is he is happy in Was and plans to stay. And even if does move, its wayyyyy more likely to be a S+T. Im not saying we cant get anyone. Im saying we cant get anyone worth getting with cap room. This team is focused on cap room when they should be focused on S+Ts. Thats how the big dogs move around in this league. Because of the rules. THey get way more money that way. None of this is new news. Im beyond shocked that the celtics are prioritizing cap room. Thats just going to lead to overpaid 3rd tier players after the top tier free-agents get moved via S+Ts and the second tier FAs latch on with contenders (which we arent). Its a year away, alot of things could change. Ive been of the ilk that you need Tatum and Brown to elevate their games and its going to take them past their current contracts. Then you build around them when the time comes. That time is not now. So its either go big or go home. Lets just see what happens. Obviously if this fails, then they have to sign these guys long term as their next goal
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Post by croc on Aug 4, 2021 15:43:49 GMT -5
That doesn't say who want out. Last I checked Harden wasn't a FA. Am I talking to a wall? Guys who want out get traded. Cap room doesnt help you trade for guys. We're talking about cap room, not trades. You used to be such a mild mannered guy. Did you swallow an a-hole pill? You have to have room to bring in players. True? Players also change their minds depending on who they're with. Durant has apparently changed his on Irving. Is he really closed on Boston? He seems fairly chummy with Jayson.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:45:37 GMT -5
It would cost Beal $50M over the life of the deal to turn down the super max and choose to come to Boston for cap room. Much much more money for him, if he stays or is moved via S+T. And he's been positioning himself for this mega pay day for a while. And Was is trying very hard to make him happy, and the rumor (that is not disproven, no matter what the blowhards on 98.5 say) is he is happy in Was and plans to stay. And even if does move, its wayyyyy more likely to be a S+T. Im not saying we cant get anyone. Im saying we cant get anyone worth getting with cap room. This team is focused on cap room when they should be focused on S+Ts. Thats how the big dogs move around in this league. Because of the rules. THey get way more money that way. None of this is new news. Im beyond shocked that the celtics are prioritizing cap room. Thats just going to lead to overpaid 3rd tier players after the top tier free-agents get moved via S+Ts and the second tier FAs latch on with contenders (which we arent). Its a year away, alot of things could change. Ive been of the ilk that you need Tatum and Brown to elevate their games and its going to take them past their current contracts. Then you build around them when the time comes. That time is not now. So its either go big or go home. Lets just see what happens. Obviously if this fails, then they have to sign these guys long term as their next goal We arent going big. We are being cheap. Again, if you want to go big and really try to bring in a player to try to have a contender within the next 2-3 years, you need to attack the trade front. So we should be bringing in guys on 2 yr deals to match contracts. I agree, go big or go home. We can then offer these guys, who we should be signing to 2 yr contracts to other teams (like Was) along with a buffet of picks and prospects. Literally everyone else available to try to land a third star. Thats how you go big. You dont go big by hoarding cap room. Because the league is always changing, and it has changed again. The best free-agents are moved via S+T. A lot of things could change, but that isnt going to. Players leave 50M on the table when they sign w new teams outright, as opposed to working a S+T. Even after Hayward signed, we were still able to work it into a S+T. Becuase S+T's just make more sense for the player and teams involved. Look around the league. Its 90% S+Ts. And thats for a reason.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:46:47 GMT -5
I 100% agree we should try to make a big splash next offseason, I just think we should do it by attacking the trade market next offseason. Try to spend $50 mil in cap space and you're coming away with T.Ro and Thad Young.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:49:08 GMT -5
Am I talking to a wall? Guys who want out get traded. Cap room doesnt help you trade for guys. We're talking about cap room, not trades. You used to be such a mild mannered guy. Did you swallow an a-hole pill? You have to have room to bring in players. True? Players also change their minds depending on who they're with. Durant has apparently changed his on Irving. Is he really closed on Boston? He seems fairly chummy with Jayson. No, not true. I dont think you understand how this works. You need outgoing contracts to bring in contracts. If you have a ton of cap room, and no contracts to ship out, then having "room" actually prevents you from bringing in players. Thats my point. You hoard contracts in the NBA, not cap room. Thats why Admin and I agreed that the worse thing about losing Hayward was losing the contract. TT's entire value was the contract. NBA is weird. But having guys signed helps you bring in guys. I agree on Durant. I think he's a possibility.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:49:37 GMT -5
Then if you get him, like Dominoes, everything changes. As ppl suddenly will want to come here. But its a lot of eggs in the Durant basket.
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Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2021 15:50:21 GMT -5
Durant is the guy I see as never coming here, he just called the city racist 2 months ago. People speculate about Beal, because he’s best friends with the guy that matters most in the Celtics franchise. That means something, could mean a little could mean a lot It would cost Beal $50M over the life of the deal to turn down the super max and choose to come to Boston for cap room. Much much more money for him, if he stays or is moved via S+T. And he's been positioning himself for this mega pay day for a while. And Was is trying very hard to make him happy, and the rumor (that is not disproven, no matter what the blowhards on 98.5 say) is he is happy in Was and plans to stay. And even if does move, its wayyyyy more likely to be a S+T. Im not saying we cant get anyone. Im saying we cant get anyone worth getting with cap room. This team is focused on cap room when they should be focused on S+Ts. Thats how the big dogs move around in this league. Because of the rules. THey get way more money that way.
None of this is new news. Im beyond shocked that the celtics are prioritizing cap room. Thats just going to lead to overpaid 3rd tier players after the top tier free-agents get moved via S+Ts and the second tier FAs latch on with contenders (which we arent).
You nailed it!
That's why I'm pissed with ownership. You have to use the S&T and be hard capped to get the players/contracts you want/need. Worrying about luxury or repeater tax these days just hard caps you in the middle of the league - stuck in the mud!
You have to have large contracts to be able to maneuver - $5MM fillers no longer works. $10MM is the new $5MM. The top tier are taking 35% of your cap and you need 3 so that's 100% of team payroll meaning you better be able to pay tax or your aren't competing going forward.
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Post by solly on Aug 4, 2021 15:50:50 GMT -5
Its a year away, alot of things could change. Ive been of the ilk that you need Tatum and Brown to elevate their games and its going to take them past their current contracts. Then you build around them when the time comes. That time is not now. So its either go big or go home. Lets just see what happens. Obviously if this fails, then they have to sign these guys long term as their next goal We arent going big. We are being cheap. Again, if you want to go big and really try to bring in a player to try to have a contender within the next 2-3 years, you need to attack the trade front. So we should be bringing in guys on 2 yr deals to match contracts. I agree, go big or go home. We can then offer these guys, who we should be signing to 2 yr contracts to other teams (like Was) along with a buffet of picks and prospects. Literally everyone else available to try to land a third star. Thats how you go big. You dont go big by hoarding cap room. Because the league is always changing, and it has changed again. The best free-agents are moved via S+T. A lot of things could change, but that isnt going to. Players leave 50M on the table when they sign w new teams outright, as opposed to working a S+T. Even after Hayward signed, we were still able to work it into a S+T. Becuase S+T's just make more sense for the player and teams involved. Look around the league. Its 90% S+Ts. And thats for a reason. Sure, I am not arguing with you. Again, you guys know more about the money in the NBA then I want to know. If you say they have a 10-15% chance of getting a guy like Beal then I am on that train. The Celtics FO, Brad/Wyc whoever...dont want to be irrelevant. I am sure they have something in their minds to have a chance at these guys. If not then we will have to re-asses when the time comes.
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:51:48 GMT -5
It would cost Beal $50M over the life of the deal to turn down the super max and choose to come to Boston for cap room. Much much more money for him, if he stays or is moved via S+T. And he's been positioning himself for this mega pay day for a while. And Was is trying very hard to make him happy, and the rumor (that is not disproven, no matter what the blowhards on 98.5 say) is he is happy in Was and plans to stay. And even if does move, its wayyyyy more likely to be a S+T. Im not saying we cant get anyone. Im saying we cant get anyone worth getting with cap room. This team is focused on cap room when they should be focused on S+Ts. Thats how the big dogs move around in this league. Because of the rules. THey get way more money that way.
None of this is new news. Im beyond shocked that the celtics are prioritizing cap room. Thats just going to lead to overpaid 3rd tier players after the top tier free-agents get moved via S+Ts and the second tier FAs latch on with contenders (which we arent).
You nailed it!
That's why I'm pissed with ownership. You have to use the S&T and be hard capped to get the players/contracts you want/need. Worrying about luxury or repeater tax these days just hard caps you in the middle of the league - stuck in the mud!
You have to have large contracts to be able to maneuver - $5MM fillers no longer works. $10MM is the new $5MM. The top tier are taking 35% of your cap and you need 3 so that's 100% of team payroll meaning you better be able to pay tax or your aren't competing going forward.
Exactly. To maneuver in this league, you need contracts, not cap room.
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Post by croc on Aug 4, 2021 15:51:57 GMT -5
You used to be such a mild mannered guy. Did you swallow an a-hole pill? You have to have room to bring in players. True? Players also change their minds depending on who they're with. Durant has apparently changed his on Irving. Is he really closed on Boston? He seems fairly chummy with Jayson. No, you dont. I dont think you understand how this works. You need outgoing contracts to bring in contracts. If you have a ton of cap room, and no contracts to ship out, then having "room" actually prevents you from bringing in players. Thats my point. You hoard contracts in the NBA, not cap room. Thats why Admin and I agreed that the worse thing about losing Hayward was losing the contract. TT's entire value was the contract. NBA is weird. But having guys signed helps you bring in guys. I agree on Durant. I think he's a possibility. They do have some contracts Smart and Richardson. They can sign RWill. ETA also Big Al
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:54:32 GMT -5
We arent going big. We are being cheap. Again, if you want to go big and really try to bring in a player to try to have a contender within the next 2-3 years, you need to attack the trade front. So we should be bringing in guys on 2 yr deals to match contracts. I agree, go big or go home. We can then offer these guys, who we should be signing to 2 yr contracts to other teams (like Was) along with a buffet of picks and prospects. Literally everyone else available to try to land a third star. Thats how you go big. You dont go big by hoarding cap room. Because the league is always changing, and it has changed again. The best free-agents are moved via S+T. A lot of things could change, but that isnt going to. Players leave 50M on the table when they sign w new teams outright, as opposed to working a S+T. Even after Hayward signed, we were still able to work it into a S+T. Becuase S+T's just make more sense for the player and teams involved. Look around the league. Its 90% S+Ts. And thats for a reason. Sure, I am not arguing with you. If you say they have a 10-15% chance of getting a guy like Beal then I am on that train. The Celtics FO, Brad/Wyc whoever...dont want to be irrelevant. I am sure they have something in their minds to have a chance at these guys. If not then we will have to re-asses when the time comes. I dont disagree. The way I see it, we have a 15% chance of being able to work a S+T for Beal (and we should ABSOLUTELY pursue it), we have a 0.5% chance of signing him with cap room. I agree with you we should go for the big fish. But positioning ourselves to have no contracts after this coming season (but with a proverbial fton of cap room) hurts our chances of getting a big fish. Doesnt help. We agree on "what" they should do. Go after big fish. I am just bummed (and I understand you arent arguing) that "how" we are going about this is all wrong. You dont sign quality free agents anymore. You work S+Ts for them these days.
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Post by croc on Aug 4, 2021 15:54:39 GMT -5
No, you dont. I dont think you understand how this works. You need outgoing contracts to bring in contracts. If you have a ton of cap room, and no contracts to ship out, then having "room" actually prevents you from bringing in players. Thats my point. You hoard contracts in the NBA, not cap room. Thats why Admin and I agreed that the worse thing about losing Hayward was losing the contract. TT's entire value was the contract. NBA is weird. But having guys signed helps you bring in guys. I agree on Durant. I think he's a possibility. They do have some contracts Smart and Richardson. They can sign RWill. ETA also Big Al Not only contracts but flexibility in a straight FA signing
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Post by drewski6 on Aug 4, 2021 15:59:38 GMT -5
No, you dont. I dont think you understand how this works. You need outgoing contracts to bring in contracts. If you have a ton of cap room, and no contracts to ship out, then having "room" actually prevents you from bringing in players. Thats my point. You hoard contracts in the NBA, not cap room. Thats why Admin and I agreed that the worse thing about losing Hayward was losing the contract. TT's entire value was the contract. NBA is weird. But having guys signed helps you bring in guys. I agree on Durant. I think he's a possibility. They do have some contracts Smart and Richardson. They can sign RWill. ETA also Big Al Okay, but this is a complete U-turn from what you were saying. What we were debating is if they can use cap room to sign guys who can move the needle. Saying we still might be able to work a S+T for a S+T is a much better point than what you were previously saying. As I keep going back to, you dont sign top FAs anymore - you work S+Ts for them...so cap room is irrelevant. But yet, its clearly part of the Celtics goal to get cap room for next offseason, which disappoints me. But I do agree w your point that maybe next year we can do S+Ts for S+Ts (like resign Marcus and Richardson on a S+T and ship them for Beal on a S+T). Its all about the S+Ts , so having more contracts (as opposed to more cap room) would actually help us bring ppl in and give us flexibility to maneuver. I know its counterintuitive, but in todays nba - having contracts to match on the trade front actually help you maneuver. So we dont need cap room, like, at all. But current mgmnt is trying to have some serious cap room next year :/ Like you pt out, maybe they'll change their strat and U-turn and look to move on the S+T market as opposed to making swings w cap room. I hope we do, otherwise the master plan ends in T.Ro and Thad Young.
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Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2021 16:02:51 GMT -5
The other thing is shorter contracts.
Lebron taught everyone that there's just as much security in two yr contracts with a player option in yr 2
The cap goes up just about every year. And being able to rotate from team to team assures ability to find a team with talent and the means to pay top $.
Of course this is most relevant to top tier players.
Smart franchises will play the game rather than trying to tie guys up for 4yrs as they will opt for your competitor paying more for the shorter lock up which works to the players advantage.
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Post by croc on Aug 4, 2021 16:04:28 GMT -5
They do have some contracts Smart and Richardson. They can sign RWill. ETA also Big Al Okay, but this is a complete U-turn from what you were saying. What we were debating is if they can use cap room to sign guys who can move the needle. Saying we still might be able to work a S+T for a S+T is a much better point than what you were previously saying. As I keep going back to, you dont sign top FAs anymore - you work S+Ts for them...so cap room is irrelevant. But yet, its clearly part of the Celtics goal to get cap room for next offseason, which disappoints me. But I do agree w your point that maybe next year we can do S+Ts for S+Ts (like resign Marcus and Richardson on a S+T and ship them for Beal on a S+T). Its all about the S+Ts , so having more contracts (as opposed to more cap room) would actually help us bring ppl in and give us flexibility to maneuver. I know its counterintuitive, but in todays nba - having contracts to match on the trade front actually help you maneuver. So we dont need cap room, like, at all. But current mgmnt is trying to have some serious cap room next year :/ Like you pt out, maybe they'll change their strat and U-turn and look to move on the S+T market as opposed to making swings w cap room. I hope we do, otherwise the master plan ends in T.Ro and Thad Young. My main point in this off season has been them maintaining flexibility. I should have made that clearer here. They can go the FA route or trades with S&Ts etc. I don't care the route they take, as long as they get there. Smart is almost a given in any S&T.
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Post by Admin on Aug 4, 2021 16:07:03 GMT -5
They can't be worrying about hard caps and taxes!
Sign the best players you can get to short term deals at big bucks.
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Post by croc on Aug 4, 2021 16:41:15 GMT -5
They can't be worrying about hard caps and taxes! Sign the best players you can get to short term deals at big bucks. Bringing in a bigger short term contract or 2 seems to be in their plans.
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