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Post by Admin on Nov 8, 2017 1:18:50 GMT -5
Even in the Kyrie Irving era, Celtics fans still hate the LakersRon Borges In many years past, tonight’s game at the Garden against the Los Angeles Lakers would have been much anticipated because it would be a showdown between two teams joined at the hip historically and very likely joined at the nose (as in nose-to-nose) the next spring with an NBA title on the line. Those days are done, but that’s not the Celtics’ fault. At least not anymore. It would be absurd to call the season-ending injury to Gordon Hayward a blessing, but for whatever reason, the fresh-faced Celtics that Danny Ainge has put together have blossomed since he went down. They’ve won nine straight games and own the best record in the NBA. Who could have predicted this? No one, frankly. There is a mystery that surrounds every new season and every iteration of the team you see wearing the local colors. It is too early to say this Celtics team will continue to play as remarkably as it has through the first 12 percent of the season, but on the face, it seems a blend of youthful exuberance, star power and veteran big men might be a team Celtics fans can not only root for but hold out the highest of hopes for. Brad Stevens seems to be just the kind of coach to lead a team with so much brio and bravado. Certainly Kyrie Irving is, as Reggie Jackson would put it, “the straw that stirs the drink,” but sipping from the glass as well is 19-year-old Jayson Tatum, 21-year-old Jaylen Brown and, off the bench, 23-year-old Marcus Smart. Between them, they only need one razor. Expectations were feverishly high before Hayward’s ankle was shattered, but an 0-2 start quickly tempered things, and his loss made many basketball fans wonder. Nine straight victories, however, tend to make the populace lose its collective mind, and that is now the case in a town with a growing case of Green Fever as the Lakers arrive. Obviously these 5-5 Lakers are not the ones Celtics fans have hated for so long. It’s been a few years since one could even muster much dislike for them, frankly. It’s not like the days of Jerry West and Wilt and Elgin, nor is it like the years of Magic and Kareem and the guy with the black horn rimmed glasses, Kurt Rambis, whom we all cheered being splattered on the floor by Kevin McHale back in the day. Might we soon long for the days of Kobe and Shaq? Not likely. This season’s Celtics will have to build their reputation and their place in franchise history at the expense of someone else, but there is never a shortage of teams to hate if you are a Green fan. Right now, of course, it’s LeBron’s Cavaliers, who seem to be lost at the moment but who we all know in the depths of our minds will be lingering next spring, hoping to break many hearts in this part of the country. If Irving and his kids, plus the guiding hands of Stevens, Al Horford and the rest, can continue to defend the way they are at the moment — which is to say better than any other team in the NBA — perhaps they can rid themselves of the Cavs and everyone else and reach the NBA Finals, as so few felt possible even before Hayward was hurt. If so, the Lakers won’t be waiting for them. Barring the oddest of circumstances, waiting will be the two-time world champion Golden State Warriors, who frankly are difficult to hate. Certainly Celtics fans never will be able to hate them like we’ve hated the Lakers for more than 50 years. There will be a lot of long, cold nights between tonight against the Lakers and spring days against the Cavs or Warriors. Many things still can go awry, and certainly there will be some potholes in the road. No one continues to win at the rate the Celtics are at the moment (except perhaps those 3-ball shooting Warriors). But tonight, at least, our sights are set on one thing. Pound the Lakers for old times’ sake. Win a 10th straight game at their expense. It won’t mean what it did when Russell or Bird were around, but maybe that’s the point. These aren’t the good old days, but thankfully not the days when Rick Pitino reminded us how McHale, Larry Bird and Robert Parish weren’t walking through those doors either. Maybe these are the good new days because what’s walking through that door now is the dream Danny Ainge has been promising ever since Big Three Lite (Pierce, Garnett and Allen) began to fray at the edges and fall apart. It’s far too early to conclude Irving, Al and the kids are capable of creating a dynasty of their own, and that would be true even if Hayward still was in one piece, too. Dynasties are not created by a nine-game winning streak. But this much we know: Tonight, we all hope, these guys will pound the Lakers for old times’ sake. Long-term, that’s hardly their goal, but until it’s springtime with the Cavs or the Warriors, giving the Lakers a beat-down will do. Here’s hoping the kids, including Kyrie Irving, know just how much we still like the thought of that around here. www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/2017/11/borges_even_in_the_kyrie_irving_era_celtics_fans_still_hate_the_lakers
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Post by elvissurfs on Nov 8, 2017 10:10:03 GMT -5
Well, a beatdown would be all kinds of groovy, but I'll take a win by half a point...and no injuries...so sick of hearing about Lonzo out here (sport talk radio, lots of them broadcast from LA, and even San Diego sort of follows them while hoping the Clippers come back, though now it might be the Nets, recently bought by a SD resident, but that is a different story)...it is all about Tatum...
game is in Boston, Lonzo should get heckled pretty bad...the Big Burglar Brand and all...don't imagine his father will be there...if the kid was smart he would have ditched his father in LA and lobbied any other team to get him out of LA...room to grow as a young man...should of done that in college...
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Post by Employee8 on Nov 8, 2017 12:56:06 GMT -5
Well, a beatdown would be all kinds of groovy, but I'll take a win by half a point...and no injuries...so sick of hearing about Lonzo out here (sport talk radio, lots of them broadcast from LA, and even San Diego sort of follows them while hoping the Clippers come back, though now it might be the Nets, recently bought by a SD resident, but that is a different story)...it is all about Tatum... game is in Boston, Lonzo should get heckled pretty bad...the Big Burglar Brand and all...don't imagine his father will be there...if the kid was smart he would have ditched his father in LA and lobbied any other team to get him out of LA...room to grow as a young man...should of done that in college... A rout is out of question now that AL will be out on concussion protocol. Seems it happened in Q2 of the Hawks game. streamable.com/7k18rstreamable.com/7k18r
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Post by hedleylamarr on Nov 8, 2017 13:03:33 GMT -5
Not having Al will hurt us, I agree. Time for Theis to step up?
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Post by sfbosfan on Nov 8, 2017 13:55:19 GMT -5
As per the first post, I want to express my hate for the Lakers whom I have hated for over 60 years (same with Yankees). LA has been our long time major foe except the past 9-10 years or so with LeBron & Miami and now the Cavs.
But the hate reached its intensity after game 7 in 2010 playoffs…hate to bring up old wounds…when we should have had another title and sweeter still against the team with the most after us, the Lakers.
I am still lamenting about Game 7 vs Lakers in 2010. I recall a forum then which called the Lakers win/gift a “Tainted Tinseltown Title”. Our coach then, a nice guy but I am not a Doc lover. How he keeps his job is beyond me as he has had some very good talent but, yes, some players have been injured at critical times but just never could bring them a championship…of course, in past 10 years LeBron’s Miami & Cavs have been our main obstacles while Clippers have had the Warriors, Spurs, OKC & Houston, all better than any other of our other East teams, I think.
Might have been a Doc lover had we beaten LA in 2010. Yup, I know we lost Perkins in Game 6 and in the finals they got the egregious difference of 42 foul shots to our 18 and just 21 in critical Qtr #4 when we had a 13 pt lead end of Qtr #3. Doc needed to tell both Rashid Wallace and Garnett, both 7 footers when we were losing the rebound advantage substantially, especially in the 4th Qtr. that they needed to be in the post at all times getting rebounds and not shooting 3s as we had PP & Allen do that with Rondo driving to the basket. They killed us with reb advantage 53 to 40 ( I mean 13 extra chances) and only shot 38% and we did 42% but the extra chances killed us. Gasol schooled KG out rebounding him 18 to 3. I wish we had picked up Gasol a couple of years ago. Not soft…always liked him. I mean when Kobe shoots 6 for 24 or 25% and is MVP it was painful. He’d been a goat had they lost.
Yup, tonight, although I wish it, will not be a blowout especially with Horford out. He, like Wallace and KG, and not as tall but much more of a banger I would prefer him to play more in the post although he is a good 3 pt shooter but out rebounding the opponents is more beneficial, I think. We won 9 in a row but, GOD forbid, if we don’t beat the Lakers tonight, it’ll take much of the joy from that streak.
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Post by Cabutan on Nov 8, 2017 15:44:44 GMT -5
No Horford? we are thin at that position. How long will he be out? isnt the protocol like a week??
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Post by Admin on Nov 8, 2017 17:53:21 GMT -5
Not having Al will hurt us, I agree. Time for Theis to step up? Indeed but we will need Baynes to stay out of foul trouble vs Lopez ... our P&R twosome will be missing so we'll need scoring from Brown, Tatum and Morris.
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Post by cole on Nov 8, 2017 19:03:45 GMT -5
As per the first post, I want to express my hate for the Lakers whom I have hated for over 60 years (same with Yankees). LA has been our long time major foe except the past 9-10 years or so with LeBron & Miami and now the Cavs. But the hate reached its intensity after game 7 in 2010 playoffs…hate to bring up old wounds…when we should have had another title and sweeter still against the team with the most after us, the Lakers. I am still lamenting about Game 7 vs Lakers in 2010. I recall a forum then which called the Lakers win/gift a “Tainted Tinseltown Title”. Our coach then, a nice guy but I am not a Doc lover. How he keeps his job is beyond me as he has had some very good talent but, yes, some players have been injured at critical times but just never could bring them a championship…of course, in past 10 years LeBron’s Miami & Cavs have been our main obstacles while Clippers have had the Warriors, Spurs, OKC & Houston, all better than any other of our other East teams, I think. Might have been a Doc lover had we beaten LA in 2010. Yup, I know we lost Perkins in Game 6 and in the finals they got the egregious difference of 42 foul shots to our 18 and just 21 in critical Qtr #4 when we had a 13 pt lead end of Qtr #3. Doc needed to tell both Rashid Wallace and Garnett, both 7 footers when we were losing the rebound advantage substantially, especially in the 4th Qtr. that they needed to be in the post at all times getting rebounds and not shooting 3s as we had PP & Allen do that with Rondo driving to the basket. They killed us with reb advantage 53 to 40 ( I mean 13 extra chances) and only shot 38% and we did 42% but the extra chances killed us. Gasol schooled KG out rebounding him 18 to 3. I wish we had picked up Gasol a couple of years ago. Not soft…always liked him. I mean when Kobe shoots 6 for 24 or 25% and is MVP it was painful. He’d been a goat had they lost. Yup, tonight, although I wish it, will not be a blowout especially with Horford out. He, like Wallace and KG, and not as tall but much more of a banger I would prefer him to play more in the post although he is a good 3 pt shooter but out rebounding the opponents is more beneficial, I think. We won 9 in a row but, GOD forbid, if we don’t beat the Lakers tonight, it’ll take much of the joy from that streak. I don't understand your point. They killed us on their offensive boards. Our guys weren't out on the perimeter. They were blocking out gys who were going up over their backs. Your point of getting down in the post would only affect offensive rebounds.
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Post by Admin on Nov 8, 2017 19:46:51 GMT -5
Tatum vs. Ball: Comparing Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers rookie classes in early going By Tom Westerholm AP Photo/John Bazemore
The Boston Celtics were almost certainly never going to draft Lonzo Ball.There were a variety of reasons for this. Pre-draft, Ball seemed very focused on ending up with the Los Angeles Lakers and reportedly declined to work out for the Celtics. Danny Ainge also reportedly coveted Jayson Tatum above all other prospects from the start, and then-Celtics-star Isaiah Thomas seemed to be pushing for Markelle Fultz in the point-guard class. But Ball also didn't make a lot of sense for the Celtics from a personnel perspective. The Celtics prefer lengthy wings who can develop into talented two-way players, especially with so many good point guards available in today's NBA. That logic turned out to be good -- Boston drafted Tatum, Kyrie Irving requested a trade, the Celtics ponied up big value, and both rookie and star point guard are now thriving. The Lakers took Lonzo -- and all the Lavar Ball drama that comes with him -- as well as forward Kyle Kuzma with the 27th pick. The Celtics and Lakers will match up on Wednesday on ESPN at 8 p.m., pitting their touted rookie classes against one another. The game is a chance for fans of both rival franchises to bicker loudly on Twitter about who came out ahead in the 2017 NBA Draft, so here are a few thoughts one day before. 1. This is all wildly premature. I can't stress enough how premature any comparison of Ball, Tatum, Kuzma and even Semi Ojeleye is at this point. The Celtics have played 11 games. The Lakers have played 10. Kuzma and Ball have taken a combined 229 shots, while Tatum has taken 102. The Celtics and Lakers are also completely different teams. Los Angeles is 5-5, which is roughly three games better than most people expected they would be at this point, but Boston is 9-2 and appears to be a legitimate Eastern Conference challenger. Since losing Gordon Hayward, the Celtics have won nine straight and are statistically the best defense in the league. Tatum is starting for the Celtics and has contributed to winning basketball, while Kuzma and Ball have had the ultimate green light both as shooters and (in Ball's case) as the primary show-runner. The players are different and the roles are different, so once again: Take all stats with an entire salt shaker. That said ... 2. Jayson Tatum has fit the Celtics perfectly, while Lonzo Ball has struggled.If you've been paying any attention whatsoever to the Celtics, you are aware Tatum has been good. How good? Try 52.9 percent from 3-point range, and 54.8 percent during non-garbage-time minutes (per Cleaning The Glass), a total which places him in the 96th percentile among NBA wings. He's been reliable from other distances as well -- he's making 43 percent off his long two-pointers, which places him in the 70th percentile among wings. Long twos aren't a staple of the Celtics offense, but they add depth to Tatum's game. He hasn't been particularly good around the rim, finishing just 52 percent of his shots (19th percentile among wings), but he has shown potential utilizing his length and touch. Ball, meanwhile, hasn't hit his offensive stride yet. The 6-foot-6 former UCLA star has an effective field-goal percentage of just 34.6 and has hit just 23.4 percent of his triples. His abysmal offensive rating (84) is only slightly more abysmal than his defensive rating (103). As a passer, he's very advanced. As a scorer? Less so. Defensively, Tatum has been a revelation. He adjusted quickly to Boston's rotations and flashed potential containing smaller ball-handlers at the top of the key. He's also contributing to Boston's fourth-ranked defensive rebounding percentage, grabbing 15.5 percent of all available defensive boards. Ball has never been a plus defender and he hasn't changed that narrative in the early going. What Ball has done at a high level is rebound. At 6-foot-6 with a high basketball IQ, Ball has always been excellent at pulling down a board and making a quick decision to either fire a pass ahead or push the pace himself. Grabbing 15.3 percent of all defensive rebounds, Ball is in the 96th percentile among all guards as a defensive rebounder. And here's the thing (again) about every single one of those numbers, for both Tatum and Ball: It's way too early to draw any conclusions! Tatum isn't going to shoot 52.9 percent from behind the arc for his entire career. Ball was an effective 3-point shooter in college (and rookie point guards frequently need extra time to develop). The most definitive conclusion we can draw is Boston has reason to be extremely encouraged by Tatum, while the Lakers will need to be a little more patient with Ball. 3. Kyle Kuzma looks like a legitimate NBA player. Selecting Kuzma was a move widely praised by draft analysts, but few expected him to immediately be one of the best wings on the Lakers. Kuzma is athletic and skilled, both off the catch and off the dribble. He's been excellent close to the basket, finishing at a 79-percent clip around the rim (87th percentile! As a rookie!) and making 33 percent of his 3-pointers. Kuzma has shown nice defensive potential as well, with a 6-foot-9 frame and a 7-foot wingspan. So how legitimate is Kyle Kuzma? Here's my definitive analysis: It's still way too early to tell! (You may be seeing a pattern here.) But his early projections look like a starter as a combo forward with good 3-point potential. 4. Semi Ojeleye also looks like a legitimate NBA player. We won't spend too much time here, but it's worth noting that Boston also got a wing defender who keeps forcing his way into the Celtics' crowded combo-forward rotation with his strength and defensive versatility. Meanwhile, after a slow start offensively, Ojeleye is knocking down 42.9 percent of his triples and might be a picture-perfect 3-and-D player. 5. So what's the conclusion?Put most simply, rookies require patience. Tatum has been slotted into a difficult situation (with obvious advantages such as "playing with Kyrie Irving), and he has been a revelation. Ball is in perhaps a more difficult situation (with obvious advantages such as "complete autonomy within Los Angeles' system"), and he looks like a rookie with absurdly high expectations. Kuzma and Ojeleye are both talented 22-year-old wing/forwards who came into the league a little more NBA-ready than their 19-year-old rookie counterparts. Wednesday's matchup will undoubtedly generate takes. If Tatum shines and Ball struggles, the Celtics will be lauded for having the foresight to grab an extra asset while still getting their guy. If the opposite happens, the Lakers will be lauded for taking a player who changes the culture. Pre-draft expectations still shape rookies at this point to a large degree. In both cases: Remember that Wednesday's game will be the 11th and 12th NBA contest for Ball and Tatum respectively. Both have a long way to go. Of course, it's also worth noting the Celtics employ Kyrie Irving and Al Horford. That could make a big difference as well. www.masslive.com/celtics/index.ssf/2017/11/jayson_tatum_vs_lonzo_ball_com.html#incart_river_index
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Post by sfbosfan on Nov 8, 2017 19:53:19 GMT -5
As per the first post, I want to express my hate for the Lakers whom I have hated for over 60 years (same with Yankees). LA has been our long time major foe except the past 9-10 years or so with LeBron & Miami and now the Cavs. But the hate reached its intensity after game 7 in 2010 playoffs…hate to bring up old wounds…when we should have had another title and sweeter still against the team with the most after us, the Lakers. I am still lamenting about Game 7 vs Lakers in 2010. I recall a forum then which called the Lakers win/gift a “Tainted Tinseltown Title”. Our coach then, a nice guy but I am not a Doc lover. How he keeps his job is beyond me as he has had some very good talent but, yes, some players have been injured at critical times but just never could bring them a championship…of course, in past 10 years LeBron’s Miami & Cavs have been our main obstacles while Clippers have had the Warriors, Spurs, OKC & Houston, all better than any other of our other East teams, I think. Might have been a Doc lover had we beaten LA in 2010. Yup, I know we lost Perkins in Game 6 and in the finals they got the egregious difference of 42 foul shots to our 18 and just 21 in critical Qtr #4 when we had a 13 pt lead end of Qtr #3. Doc needed to tell both Rashid Wallace and Garnett, both 7 footers when we were losing the rebound advantage substantially, especially in the 4th Qtr. that they needed to be in the post at all times getting rebounds and not shooting 3s as we had PP & Allen do that with Rondo driving to the basket. They killed us with reb advantage 53 to 40 ( I mean 13 extra chances) and only shot 38% and we did 42% but the extra chances killed us. Gasol schooled KG out rebounding him 18 to 3. I wish we had picked up Gasol a couple of years ago. Not soft…always liked him. I mean when Kobe shoots 6 for 24 or 25% and is MVP it was painful. He’d been a goat had they lost. Yup, tonight, although I wish it, will not be a blowout especially with Horford out. He, like Wallace and KG, and not as tall but much more of a banger I would prefer him to play more in the post although he is a good 3 pt shooter but out rebounding the opponents is more beneficial, I think. We won 9 in a row but, GOD forbid, if we don’t beat the Lakers tonight, it’ll take much of the joy from that streak. I don't understand your point. They killed us on their offensive boards. Our guys weren't out on the perimeter. They were blocking out gys who were going up over their backs. Your point of getting down in the post would only affect offensive rebounds. Yes, you make a point; however, if Garnett and Wallace were energetic enough to make it down the court to defend the post, Gasol as I said schooled them with 9 Off rebounds (they had 23 total) while we had only 8 for the whole game. I guess the hometown refs didn't see them defending the Lakers going over their backs as they called 21 fouls( as I said) on us just in the 4th Qtr when we only had 18 for the whole game. only. It really is a shame Perkins was out as the reb spread would not have been 53 to 40; however, he probably would have fouled out. Alas, it's all a moot point & I may never get over being pissed we lost !
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:08:03 GMT -5
Wow... Lakers vs C's has brought everyone out of the woodwork tonight. Hope we stomp this team royally. Going to be tougher with big Al out though, the way he's been playing this year. Need Jaylen to shake the funk, Jayson to show he's the better rook, and Baynes/Theis to step up their games. Go C's!
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:10:58 GMT -5
Garden crowd booing Ball... lol
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:11:22 GMT -5
Brown right to the rim. Nice
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:12:14 GMT -5
Nice floater by Kyrie
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:12:55 GMT -5
Keep booing him! Will probably get in his head.
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:13:10 GMT -5
Morris on the board early.
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:13:55 GMT -5
Ingram is still a beanpole
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:14:56 GMT -5
Awwee... That putback by Baynes should count. BS call...
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:15:48 GMT -5
C's looking aggressive early. Good sign...
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:21:44 GMT -5
Paul Pierce in the house!!!!!!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 20:23:23 GMT -5
Keep it up good doctor. I get back tomorrow. Until then, it is all on you.
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:23:56 GMT -5
Kyrie putting on a SHOW!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:24:43 GMT -5
Yo L.A. there's a new showtime baby!
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:27:35 GMT -5
Have I mentioned how much I really like this years team?
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Post by drboogiebone on Nov 8, 2017 20:34:21 GMT -5
What a drive by Brown. Wow...
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