|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 8:36:41 GMT -5
3 clear choices; -change the HC -change the players -run it back -Brad, Ime and now Mazz were not able to get this group over the hump. close, but not over. will another HC succeed? -trading JB or Smart could return some interesting pieces, but certainly no lock that the team will be better -the team has arguably been the best team in the league this season, but hit a better prepared, more motivated opponent. happened to the Bucks, 76'ers too. I am not in favor of a major knee jerk reaction with such a young team. -find some vet help on the bench for Mazz. In that order. This is the pros, coaches get fired. Coach Bud won the whole thing last year. Change "some" of the players - JB's body language indicates to me he's done here. And while he doesn't like the coach, I'm not sure that, in and of itself, will be enough. Run it back - only if we can't get fair value for the guys we have. Stevens is smart, he knows they've checked out. Keep White, Brogdon, RWill, Horford and Tatum. Maybe Grant, if he'll not break the bank and we have a new coach. Trade everyone else........not a knee jerk reaction, but for me to give up on the players and the coach? Well, let's just say it's new territory........
|
|
|
Post by dfries13 on May 22, 2023 8:42:52 GMT -5
umm
|
|
|
Post by elvissurfs on May 22, 2023 8:48:11 GMT -5
Saddest part. We part ways with a guys like Pritchard who has shown me more than all these clowns. We part ways with muscala who was decent also never used. Bottom line we start moving out the wrong players when the ones at fault are the "stars" Well said... Then the next step is the 'stars' perhaps move on also...
|
|
|
Post by elvissurfs on May 22, 2023 9:11:16 GMT -5
3 clear choices; -change the HC -change the players -run it back -Brad, Ime and now Mazz were not able to get this group over the hump. close, but not over. will another HC succeed? -trading JB or Smart could return some interesting pieces, but certainly no lock that the team will be better -the team has arguably been the best team in the league this season, but hit a better prepared, more motivated opponent. happened to the Bucks, 76'ers too. I am not in favor of a major knee jerk reaction with such a young team. -find some vet help on the bench for Mazz. That might actually be the best option...once the dust settles...
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 9:19:02 GMT -5
3 clear choices; -change the HC -change the players -run it back -Brad, Ime and now Mazz were not able to get this group over the hump. close, but not over. will another HC succeed? -trading JB or Smart could return some interesting pieces, but certainly no lock that the team will be better -the team has arguably been the best team in the league this season, but hit a better prepared, more motivated opponent. happened to the Bucks, 76'ers too. I am not in favor of a major knee jerk reaction with such a young team. -find some vet help on the bench for Mazz. That might actually be the best option...once the dust settles... Please explain the "dust"
|
|
|
Post by elvissurfs on May 22, 2023 9:19:31 GMT -5
Signing Horford for two more years at 10 mil was another mistake Stevens made hardly a good move. This sums it up well the players have little or no respect for Stevens or Mazz.. According to Celtics rival and Los Angeles Lakers Magic Johnson, he’s never seen anything like this in his life. “In my 44 years of being associated with the NBA, I never thought I’d see a Boston Celtics team, a franchise with 17 Championships, quit. I know Celtics fans all over the world must be disgusted and devastated. The Miami Heat blew them out 128-102 in Game 3,” Johnson tweeted after Game 3.
It's all over now, Baby Blue...
Maybe Mazz could regain a bit of respect by starting the bench players in Game 4, looking for those in Green ready to show some fight.
He's got nothing to lose at this point!
Pud
Dont know about starting the bench, but that is such a great Dylan song...The Grateful Dead played it for years on tour...so beautiful...Though he was a songwriter, I consider Bobby to be America's greatest poet...As Arlo Guthrie said, 'If you are fishing for songs, you don't want to be downstream from Bob Dylan'....
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 9:43:59 GMT -5
Didn't we have Strus? Did he come down to him or Javonte Green, or was Hauser in the mix as well?
BIG mistake
|
|
|
Post by elvissurfs on May 22, 2023 9:55:31 GMT -5
So, would anyone here be up for bringing back Doc?...
He has experience, would command respect, and is player friendly...might be perfect for this crew...
|
|
|
Post by kivancb on May 22, 2023 10:08:34 GMT -5
Hell NO to Doc. He is an old Mazzulla.
I honestly believe we could right now be gunning to get our 3rd championship since 2017, if we had Spo as coach right from the start instead of Brad.
|
|
|
Post by petey62 on May 22, 2023 10:11:56 GMT -5
3 clear choices; -change the HC -change the players -run it back -Brad, Ime and now Mazz were not able to get this group over the hump. close, but not over. will another HC succeed? -trading JB or Smart could return some interesting pieces, but certainly no lock that the team will be better -the team has arguably been the best team in the league this season, but hit a better prepared, more motivated opponent. happened to the Bucks, 76'ers too. I am not in favor of a major knee jerk reaction with such a young team. -find some vet help on the bench for Mazz. We MUST change the HC. We got this far despite having a very inexperienced, unqualified HC, at the helm. Mazzulla simply does not have the acumen to be a head coach of a team that is in its championship-contending window. His approach and philosophy was a total failure for the personnel and rotations he utilizes. He constrained this team. We were amazing up to the All Star break. After that, we were "average". He MUST step down and, if he doesn't, Brad needs to admit his mistake and fire him. We MUST change the players. We must move on from Horford and Smart for starters. Smart will be 30 next season and, IMHO, he's peaked! There is nothing new and improved that Smart will bring to the Celtics. If he doesn't accept a 7th or 8th man who will provide defensive energy off the bench, then it's time to move on. It's time to move on from Al. I believe we need a dependable starting center. Rob will never play a full season again in his career but I'd prefer him being a solid backup to a legitimate center (not Al). Next season, Al should assume the role that Kornet or Blake has this year. He just doesn't do enough on a consistent basis for this team to be a rotation player. We must get a vet WHO CAN PLAY (in the PJ Tucker mold).... We need a veteran alpha male because Tatum nor Brown are leaders. I doubt there is anyone on the team that they respect. They both found success too soon and they now expect it. They just don't want to "find that dog" necessary to get to the next level. Neither has the tough mindset or mentality needed to be successful at this level. These guys have gone to, what, 4 or 5 ECF and, looking at them now, you would never know it.
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 10:35:19 GMT -5
My latest:
Smart to IND Brown and PP to WAS
Turner and Beal (plus their pick) to BOS
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 11:00:01 GMT -5
Very telling:
There is a wave of anger from New England and a rising expectation elsewhere Joe Mazzulla will pay the price for this 0-3 hole the Celtics find themselves in. Brad Stevens is a huge believer in Mazzulla and made the choice not only to promote him but also to make him the permanent coach midway through the season. – via Brian Windhorst @ ESPN Top Rumors, Brad Stevens, Coaching, Joe Mazzulla, Boston Celtics
Before Game 3, if you were around the Celtics, you’d know there was no chance Mazzulla would not be back next season. After Game 3, nothing feels certain. – via Brian Windhorst @ ESPN Brad Stevens, Coaching, Joe Mazzulla, Boston Celtics
There is a question about whether the Celtics can give Jaylen Brown an extension worth more than $280 million this offseason. His performance has been dreadful in this series; he was 0-of-7 from 3-point range Sunday and is 2-for-20 from 3 in the three losses against Miami. Before Game 3, it seemed like locking down Brown, 26, was automatic; getting a player at his age in his position under control for five years is good business. After Game 3, it is human nature to wonder if the Tatum-Brown pairing is great or just very good. – via Brian Windhorst @ ESPN Free Agency, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics
|
|
|
Post by Cabutan on May 22, 2023 11:33:33 GMT -5
Admin Comment: You nailed it! Sure the players missed shots but I believe they felt too much pressure to execute because of the hole Mazz dug them into from his lack of experience. For Hedley: Brown isn't going anywhere (unless moved after getting a Max contract) because the new CBA makes it nearly impossible to replace star players. You need big contracts to have trading vehicles for other star players otherwise you are relegated to 1 star and 3-4 very good ones around him. Three stars will only happen if home grown. Two will be a luxury and one will become commonplace like the Heat are now.
I am outraged. All these C's had to do was play the transition game. The Heat don't have enough players to outmatch us in a running game. Instead, we played up to their tempo. I want to say one more thing. I am sooo disappointed at JB. Throughout the whole season this guy never learned when to stop dribbling. Never knew when to pass. All season long. Tatum, meh. I think Petey (I think it was you) compared him to Melo, enough said. That's as accurate as it can get. I am probably the only [one] here [maybe not - I've considered this], I think, that would just trade Tatum and build something around JB. But that ain't going to happen either. I never had a second team that I liked. Never in my life. I am beginning to like Toronto and I can see myself watching more Toronto games. I think that as long as this Owners/Stevens marriage remains, I won't enjoy this team ever. I would prefer a GM that has a vision of collaborative success. That does not uses analytics to pick his players or drive his coaches specially when the analytics don't take into account the Defense. I want a coach that has seen the game at the same level. One that can identify each players roles including that one energy player which we have not had since Doc days. Nope I would not even entertain the idea of bringing doc back. The rotation players can't stop all of the sudden and quit on their coach. Instead they should re group and think of ways that they can take one game at a time. If they are boycotting the coach at this moment then I want a GM that has the balls to trade them all. Although this is a union based league, the union mentality is as detrimental as it could ever be for anyone else stepping up to the plate.
|
|
|
Post by jdm894g on May 22, 2023 11:57:09 GMT -5
I have constantly wondered what the offense was for this team. Shooting threes was not going to be the answer long term. This team is a front running team. They cannot win close games. They are Jekyll and Hyde. get blown out by OKC, lose to WAS, ORL(3xs) and blew a lead to BKN.
Mazz needs to go. Horford to the bench Smart to the bench or traded JB(get a dribbling and shooting coach) or traded JT(get a dribbling coach) Time Lord(to the bench) G Will(trade or stay in the current roll) Muscala/Hauser/Kornet-let them walk Develop Kabengele
|
|
|
Post by petey62 on May 22, 2023 12:19:33 GMT -5
I have constantly wondered what the offense was for this team. Shooting threes was not going to be the answer long term. This team is a front running team. They cannot win close games. They are Jekyll and Hyde. get blown out by OKC, lose to WAS, ORL(3xs) and blew a lead to BKN. Mazz needs to go. Horford to the bench Smart to the bench or traded JB(get a dribbling and shooting coach) or traded JT(get a dribbling coach) Time Lord(to the bench) G Will(trade or stay in the current roll) Muscala/Hauser/Kornet-let them walk Develop Kabengele Cannot argue, nada one of your points. I agree with every one of them.
|
|
|
Post by dfries13 on May 22, 2023 12:20:07 GMT -5
Admin Comment: You nailed it! Sure the players missed shots but I believe they felt too much pressure to execute because of the hole Mazz dug them into from his lack of experience. For Hedley: Brown isn't going anywhere (unless moved after getting a Max contract) because the new CBA makes it nearly impossible to replace star players. You need big contracts to have trading vehicles for other star players otherwise you are relegated to 1 star and 3-4 very good ones around him. Three stars will only happen if home grown. Two will be a luxury and one will become commonplace like the Heat are now.
I am outraged. All these C's had to do was play the transition game. The Heat don't have enough players to outmatch us in a running game. Instead, we played up to their tempo. I want to say one more thing. I am sooo disappointed at JB. Throughout the whole season this guy never learned when to stop dribbling. Never knew when to pass. All season long. Tatum, meh. I think Petey (I think it was you) compared him to Melo, enough said. That's as accurate as it can get. I am probably the only [one] here [maybe not - I've considered this], I think, that would just trade Tatum and build something around JB. But that ain't going to happen either. I never had a second team that I liked. Never in my life. I am beginning to like Toronto and I can see myself watching more Toronto games. I think that as long as this Owners/Stevens marriage remains, I won't enjoy this team ever. I would prefer a GM that has a vision of collaborative success. That does not uses analytics to pick his players or drive his coaches specially when the analytics don't take into account the Defense. I want a coach that has seen the game at the same level. One that can identify each players roles including that one energy player which we have not had since Doc days. Nope I would not even entertain the idea of bringing doc back. The rotation players can't stop all of the sudden and quit on their coach. Instead they should re group and think of ways that they can take one game at a time. If they are boycotting the coach at this moment then I want a GM that has the balls to trade them all. Although this is a union based league, the union mentality is as detrimental as it could ever be for anyone else stepping up to the plate. I agee with all you have said and what JDF said. Tatum is the coming of Melo # 2 and like Melo plays poor defense more times then not. Brown most times guards the opposing teams best player. Lets clear up some facts on Tatum vs Brown stats that Hedley brought up. Brown has had some bad games but the number thu the playoffs are. Tatum 45.3% FG 34.3 % on threes. Brown50.7% FG 38.9% on threes.... Trading either on is not very likely due to the money.. Srevens gets credit for developing what? Nothing but a colossal
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 22, 2023 12:22:48 GMT -5
If Brad will not replace Mazz (Wyc should make him though) then (as rkarp posted above) he needs to hire a vet coach as assistant who can take over if Mazz doesn't grow quickly.
This team lacks an alpha leader - Tatum will always be the Beta. And his casual mentality is suited to 2nd fiddle with leadership in his game rather than a tone setter or vocal leader. He can contribute in multiple ways to contribute to a win but is unable to provide a team mentality that makes others better. We need a PF and/or C that can take control of a game and handle PJ Tucker and Embiid types. Maybe that guy can be the Alpha.
As for Brown ... he has pride and wants to be the best he can. He could be the leader but has not been given the opportunity to be the main scoring option because of his short comings - ball handling, passing skills and ability to use head fakes/body language to beat his defender. He needs a consultant to improve upon these skills to become a truly polished Superstar. With his energy, pride, ability to play both ends and communication skills, he could someday be the alpha dog but not until he's a polished product.
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 12:23:29 GMT -5
I have constantly wondered what the offense was for this team. Shooting threes was not going to be the answer long term. This team is a front running team. They cannot win close games. They are Jekyll and Hyde. get blown out by OKC, lose to WAS, ORL(3xs) and blew a lead to BKN. Mazz needs to go. Horford to the bench Smart to the bench or traded JB(get a dribbling and shooting coach) or traded JT(get a dribbling coach) Time Lord(to the bench) G Will(trade or stay in the current roll) Muscala/Hauser/Kornet-let them walk Develop Kabengele Agree with all, except TimeLord to the bench. Who are the starting bigs in your scenario?
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 12:28:42 GMT -5
Stevens gets credit for developing Smart, GWill, RWill, Brown and Tatum Stevens gets credit for bringing back Horford, trading Nesmith and Langford, and bringing in White and Brogdon.
Not sure who "fired" Ime. If Admin just wrote "Wyc should make him (fire Mazz)", then, isn't it possible Wyc "made" him fire Ime?
Plenty of teams would love to have Tatum or Brown. As I've said many times, I read POR is looking for an "elite" wing. They would offer Simmons and the #3 pick for that. And we have two!
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 12:30:34 GMT -5
If "developing" means winning a title, then 29 coaches don't develop players every year. If DEN wins the title, does that mean Spo does not "develop" players?
Kind of......like........not a well thought out statement
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 12:32:46 GMT -5
This guy could star in a movie with Alicia Silverstone:
Tim Bontemps: Joe Mazzulla says he has the “utmost confidence” in his team’s ability to bounce back. Said it’s about focusing on getting the first win, and the progressing from there. – via Twitter TimBontemps Coaching, Joe Mazzulla, Boston Celtics
Brian Robb: Joe Mazzulla on Game 3 effort: “We were disconnected that game. We have to work to get that back as fast as we can.” – via Twitter BrianTRobb Coaching, Joe Mazzulla, Boston Celtics
Brian Robb: Joe Mazzulla on trying to keep positive mentality for Game 4: “Last night got away from us but we have had moments in this series where we’ve played well.” – via Twitter BrianTRobb Coaching, Joe Mazzulla, Boston Celtics
|
|
|
Post by hedleylamarr on May 22, 2023 12:36:27 GMT -5
Note that I said “the team at No. 3” because of widespread speculation the Trail Blazers, who currently own the pick, will seek to trade out of the third position rather than select another young player. With Portland in “win it for Dame” mode and the Blazers desperate for playable wings (even presuming they re-sign Jerami Grant), speculation is already widespread that a package of the third pick and Anfernee Simons might be used to snag an elite small forward. 3 days ago – via John Hollinger @ The Athletic Top Rumors, Trade, Anfernee Simons, Jerami Grant, Portland Trail Blazers
|
|
|
Post by Cabutan on May 22, 2023 12:37:53 GMT -5
I have constantly wondered what the offense was for this team. Shooting threes was not going to be the answer long term. This team is a front running team. They cannot win close games. They are Jekyll and Hyde. get blown out by OKC, lose to WAS, ORL(3xs) and blew a lead to BKN. Mazz needs to go. Horford to the bench Smart to the bench or traded JB(get a dribbling and shooting coach) or traded JT(get a dribbling coach) Time Lord(to the bench) G Will(trade or stay in the current roll) Muscala/Hauser/Kornet-let them walk Develop Kabengele Agree with all, except TimeLord to the bench. Who are the starting bigs in your scenario? I love RWills game. He has it. He is not reliable though
|
|
|
Post by Admin on May 22, 2023 12:39:00 GMT -5
Stevens gets credit for developing Smart, GWill, RWill, Brown and Tatum Stevens gets credit for bringing back Horford, trading Nesmith and Langford, and bringing in White and Brogdon. Not sure who "fired" Ime. If Admin just wrote "Wyc should make him (fire Mazz)", then, isn't it possible Wyc "made" him fire Ime? Plenty of teams would love to have Tatum or Brown. As I've said many times, I read POR is looking for an "elite" wing. They would offer Simmons and the #3 pick for that. And we have two!
I don't believe that the decision to suspend Udoka was Brad's alone. Absolutely not - of course Wyc's hand was in it.
The actual firing of Udoka and hiring of Mazz in time for the AllStar Game is up for discussion. Brad may have made that call to avoid the embarrassment to the franchise at the time and Wyc most likely went along. I doubt Wyc alone made that call.
You don't give up on two potential superstars when they are just reaching their prime. Was Butler who he is today 3-5 yrs ago when everyone else traded him away? Bet they all wish they had kept him. You want to be the next one to shoot yourself in the foot?
|
|
|
Post by dfries13 on May 22, 2023 12:44:13 GMT -5
Stevens gets credit for developing Smart, GWill, RWill, Brown and Tatum Stevens gets credit for bringing back Horford, trading Nesmith and Langford, and bringing in White and Brogdon. Not sure who "fired" Ime. If Admin just wrote "Wyc should make him (fire Mazz)", then, isn't it possible Wyc "made" him fire Ime? Plenty of teams would love to have Tatum or Brown. As I've said many times, I read POR is looking for an "elite" wing. They would offer Simmons and the #3 pick for that. And we have two! IDK who fired IME but it looks like a mistake. As President or GM of the Celtics Stevens let this drama develop and develop till it exploded.. There might have been a much better way to handle this. Smart Gwill R Will Brown and Tatum have brought how many rings with Stevens? 0 Trump is going to be charged lets talk about something we agree on it's never been BBall. Simmons plays for Portland? Simons the 6'3'' shooting guard?
|
|