|
|
Post by drewski6 on Nov 4, 2021 9:09:57 GMT -5
Well, if we trade Smart, we'd have to take equal money back...And if not , wed get a TPE, but you cant use that on a FA. So its kind of irrelevant to compare him to Smart. Smart was not a FA when we extended him, so its not like we could have just let Smart walk and kept Fournier. Fournier just signed a 4 yr / $80m contract that will cover his age 29,30,31,32 seasons. He's already slow for a wing, and already has trouble staying in front of slashers. When he gets to the other side of 30, I expect that to get worse. His career stats are like 2.8 boards and 2.7 assists game. That = meh. He's not athletic and isnt particularly durable. He's a good cutter, but he's average (at best) at finishing at the rim. Because he just doesnt have the athleticism, agility, mid-air body contortion ability.
He's a hard worker with a smooth stroke, but the athletic and agility limitations just make him a defensive liability and hurt his ability to contribute on the glass. He's not a great finisher, so he isnt a 3 level scorer. He's a solid bench player but I wouldnt pay him $20m/yr especially considering that 75% of the contract, he'll be at the wrong side of 30 and already has bad foot speed, lateral movement, agility. No player who cant move well side to side is worth $20m / yr. Its hugely important. Look at Kanter, cant get on the court. I wasn't comparing Fournier to Smart because there is no comparison. Smart is not better than Fournier. Fournier makes $17M this year and $18M, $18.8M, and $19M for the life of the contract. He's not at $20M/yr. Smart's extension puts him above that AND HE IS FAR LESS WORTH IT! If Smart remains a Celtic, we'll be crying about his contract for the next 3 years. But I'm reading your post Drew and everything you write; they're your thoughts. The bottom line is the Celtics sorely lack a 3rd scoring option and you can list all of the critical things you want about Fournier, the fact remains that the Celtics desperately NEED WHAT HE BRINGS. You say " he's got defensive liabilities and he's not athletic and he's not a great finisher", but he's averaging more than any Celtics player not named JT or JB. And there aren't many Celtics outside of RWill and Big Al that are dependable defenders right now for the Celtics because our defense sucks. And he busted us up for 32 points. He sure looked slow and unable to finish in that game. Sometimes, as Celtics fans, we over-value our own players and under-value others. It's unfortunate that you piss so much on a good player like Fournier when most Celtics fans would prefer he be in green than NYK blue and orange. Im not trying to piss on him. Like I said, hes a hard worker with a smooth stroke. Frankly, I dont think it was feasible to compete with the Knicks offer with the money already on the books. Like I said, Smart wasnt a FA when he got his extension - so its unfair to compare $. Smart (or equal money in a trade) would still be on the books, so you have to make the $ for Fournier with Smart included. I 100% agree we sorely lack a third scorer - and that Fournier can score. But we would have had to break the bank for him, and considering his defensive limitations and age, Im just not crying about it. Maybe some of that is numbness after losing a much better player in Hayward. But Fournier is 6'6 swing who already struggles to stay in front of slashers approaching 30 yrs old and doesnt rebound well. He doesnt rebound as well as Hayward, he doesnt push the pace as well as Hayward, he's not as strong as Hayward. I think Fournier's a good player, but to me - he's not "the one who got away". But I do agree, we'd be a better team with him (by a significant margin) at this point in time. |
|
|
|
Post by solly on Nov 4, 2021 9:46:59 GMT -5
I wasn't comparing Fournier to Smart because there is no comparison. Smart is not better than Fournier. Fournier makes $17M this year and $18M, $18.8M, and $19M for the life of the contract. He's not at $20M/yr. Smart's extension puts him above that AND HE IS FAR LESS WORTH IT! If Smart remains a Celtic, we'll be crying about his contract for the next 3 years. But I'm reading your post Drew and everything you write; they're your thoughts. The bottom line is the Celtics sorely lack a 3rd scoring option and you can list all of the critical things you want about Fournier, the fact remains that the Celtics desperately NEED WHAT HE BRINGS. You say " he's got defensive liabilities and he's not athletic and he's not a great finisher", but he's averaging more than any Celtics player not named JT or JB. And there aren't many Celtics outside of RWill and Big Al that are dependable defenders right now for the Celtics because our defense sucks. And he busted us up for 32 points. He sure looked slow and unable to finish in that game. Sometimes, as Celtics fans, we over-value our own players and under-value others. It's unfortunate that you piss so much on a good player like Fournier when most Celtics fans would prefer he be in green than NYK blue and orange. Im not trying to piss on him. Like I said, hes a hard worker with a smooth stroke. Frankly, I dont think it was feasible to compete with the Knicks offer with the money already on the books. Like I said, Smart wasnt a FA when he got his extension - so its unfair to compare $. Smart (or equal money in a trade) would still be on the books, so you have to make the $ for Fournier with Smart included. I 100% agree we sorely lack a third scorer - and that Fournier can score. But we would have had to break the bank for him, and considering his defensive limitations and age, Im just not crying about it. Maybe some of that is numbness after losing a much better player in Hayward. But Fournier is 6'6 swing who already struggles to stay in front of slashers approaching 30 yrs old and doesnt rebound well. He doesnt rebound as well as Hayward, he doesnt push the pace as well as Hayward, he's not as strong as Hayward. I think Fournier's a good player, but to me - he's not "the one who got away". But I do agree, we'd be a better team with him (by a significant margin) at this point in time. I honestly didnt really care about not signing Fournier strictly because he wouldnt have solved many of the teams issues and wouldve only bumped their ceiling slightly as a roster. As long as Tatum/Brown are running the team, I am not sure it matters whos around them right now...If you are saying in 3 years maybe he couldve helped, then Id agree with your point, hed be a 30+ year old one dimensional player at that point. They obviously need shooters, and hes a good one, but I dont think hes changing this teams fortune any time soon |
|
|
|
Post by petey62 on Nov 4, 2021 10:18:44 GMT -5
I guess we just look at things differently. I'm not looking for a home run right now. I'm looking at small long-term roster improvements so that when we are ready in 2 years, we'll have the pieces in place and won't be running around desperate to acquire them. If player John Doe shoots 70% from 3-point range, having him on the court changes the Celtics fortune (70% is an exaggeration, of course, but you get my meaning).
If Duncan Robinson was on the Celtics, we'd be so much better. When talking about a "pure shooter", the first thing people say is "but he's a defensive liability". I think that is just a standard response.
I've seen JJ Redick in his prime work hard and be effective on the defensive end. I've seen Kyle Korver battle on the defensive end too as well as Duncan Robinson. The bottom line is.....no individual defender can truly defend another. They can only work to make things harder but that always doesn't happen.
Sometime, it shouldn't be about changing team's fortunes as much as improving it for the long haul.
|
|
|
|
Post by petey62 on Nov 4, 2021 10:23:42 GMT -5
Right now, with Tatum and Brown NOT ready to lead, TO ME, it's fruitless trying to acquire Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard.
It really doesn't matter who we acquire because Tatum and Brown will BRING DOWN a team looking to contend right now. They are counter to a team contending.
Once they mature more and learn the game more, they will then be more significant pieces on a contender. But not now, by far.
|
|
|
|
Post by kyceltic on Nov 4, 2021 10:30:59 GMT -5
Right now, with Tatum and Brown NOT ready to lead, TO ME, it's fruitless trying to acquire Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard. It really doesn't matter who we acquire because Tatum and Brown will BRING DOWN a team looking to contend right now. They are counter to a team contending. Once they mature more and learn the game more, they will then be more significant pieces on a contender. But not now, by far. There's a few things Brown can be better at, but look around the league, he's playing about as well as anyone. If Tatum was playing like Brown, we may be undefeated after these 8 games! |
|
|
|
Post by petey62 on Nov 4, 2021 10:36:40 GMT -5
No doubt. Right now, Brown is our best player. I couldn't care less about potential and media hype. Jaylen Brown is the man on the Celtics ON THE COURT.
|
|
|
|
Post by solly on Nov 4, 2021 11:18:19 GMT -5
Right now, with Tatum and Brown NOT ready to lead, TO ME, it's fruitless trying to acquire Bradley Beal or Dame Lillard. It really doesn't matter who we acquire because Tatum and Brown will BRING DOWN a team looking to contend right now. They are counter to a team contending. Once they mature more and learn the game more, they will then be more significant pieces on a contender. But not now, by far. There's a few things Brown can be better at, but look around the league, he's playing about as well as anyone. If Tatum was playing like Brown, we may be undefeated after these 8 games! THey dont have an effect on the games that truly great players do, regardless of stats. Durant effects the game as soon as he steps on the court, as does Lebron, as Does Giannis/Steph, etc. These guys right now dont change the flow of the game unless they are dropping 45. |
|
|
|
Post by Cabutan on Nov 4, 2021 11:24:49 GMT -5
🤦
|
|
|
|
Post by puddin on Nov 4, 2021 11:47:33 GMT -5
No doubt. Right now, Brown is our best player. I couldn't care less about potential and media hype. Jaylen Brown is the man on the Celtics ON THE COURT.
Mr. Ruffles isn't even a close second.
Brittle... like fried potato slices.
Pud
|
|
|
|
Post by dfries13 on Nov 4, 2021 12:12:31 GMT -5
No doubt. Right now, Brown is our best player. I couldn't care less about potential and media hype. Jaylen Brown is the man on the Celtics ON THE COURT. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
Mr. Ruffles isn't even a close second.
Brittle... like fried potato slices.
Pud
Brittle... like fried potato slices. nice and to think i thought you were drifting away in your ''waning'' years.. guess not |
|
|
|
Post by puddin on Nov 4, 2021 17:21:17 GMT -5
<button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button>
Mr. Ruffles isn't even a close second.
Brittle... like fried potato slices.
Pud
Brittle... like fried potato slices. nice and to think i thought you were drifting away in your ''waning'' years.. guess not Drifting away my azz.
Guess again.... Jose!
Turns out yo sweet sis put something YUGE in my tank.
Look out world!
Da Pudster is B-A-C-K!
Pud
|
|
